this post was submitted on 05 Oct 2024
32 points (77.6% liked)
Palestine
762 readers
208 users here now
A community to discuss everything Palestine.
Rules:
-
Posts can be in Arabic or English.
-
Please add a flair in the title of every post. Example: “[News] Israel annexes the West Bank ”, “[Culture] Musakhan is the nicest food in the world!”, “[Question] How many Palestinians live in Jordan?”
List of flairs: [News] [Culture] [Discussion] [Question] [Request] [Guide]
founded 4 years ago
MODERATORS
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
view the rest of the comments
That's not the flex he thinks it is.
Hopefully Harris can do better.
What exactly are you on about? Isn't she the current vice president that has expressed her unwavering support for Israel countless times already? What could possibly change with her?
For one, it would be incredibly stupid to go against Israel in this political climate because the US gov loves genocide. She needs to win the election, and she needs the warmongers to support her. If she was going to do anything, it would be after the election if she is president. We won't know until then, but we can't say we know now.
Vice presidents don't decide shit, she definitely isn't going to cause infighting with Biden.
Vote her in office and protest/halt the economy until she gives in. Much better chance doing that with her than any other candidate. Americans are quick to bitch about israel, but they love their military budget, their "thank you for your service" and the monthly advanced weapons reveals. Get war out of americans you might see it leave the politicians. Start by attacking the outrageous military budget if you want to help Palestinians.
Why do you think you can tell me who to vote for?
Why would it be incredibly stupid to go against Israel in this political climate? She is the vice president, she with Biden take the decisions, they are the top of the hierarchy. If they out of all people don't have a will/say, what's the point of voting?
If she needs the warmongers to support her to win the election, then she needs to maintain their support during her term cause they fund the democratic party. She needs their support all the time and would never harm their interests. This next part is really important I really need to emphasize how ridiculous it is:
If she doesn't make a couple concessions now in her campaign, that politicians have to make promises and grand statements, then when the important time to take actual decisions comes and the "warmongers" are pressuring her and threaten her possibly, what makes you think she will do anything about it????
How will she do anything if she has admitted that she will always support Israel? What more there is to know?? This is beyond outrageous and ridiculous, next level gaslighting, I can't even describe how appalling these arguments are.
Vice presidents don't decide shit? Who says that? Does Biden seem like someone taking decisions? He can barely read the speeches they hand him. She could have expressed her disagreement in literally any way, pressure not to send money, weapons, protection to Israel, but she didn't, cause that's her deal, she is with Zionists 100%.
The last part doesn't make sense to me, it's more incoherent rambling and mental gymnastics about why I should vote those who commit genocide in Palestine and are funded by the military industrial complex.
Youre losing your mind and reading whatever you want from what I said. Everything you said can be applied to Trump, except you don't get to protest and you hand over Ukraine. Congratulations patrick you saved palestine
I understand it is very unfortunate that I answered your ridiculous, non sensical statements and sentence by sentence at that. I've honestly never seen arguments making so little sense by a democrat and I've argued with a lot. Also the gaslighting goes craaazy once again. But it's literally impossible to answer to what I say, what you said is just undefendable - from the fact that Harris is now 100% with Zionists, but she will magically stand up when all the lobbies will pressure her to take decisions for them and people will have no say, to how she can do nothing to stop this or express strong disagreement as vice president, or to how you ignore anything she's ever said, having the exact same rhetoric as Biden, Blinken etc, backing the genocidal maniacs.
So now you resort to the most common argument about Trump, saying that everything I said can be applied to him, which is really funny. It's as if I ever said he will be any better. There's a serious lack of meaningful arguments here. See, ignoring the strawman, the problem with this lesser evil argument, is that there is always a red line beyond which both parties are indistinguishable(think if you had to choose between Hitler and Hitler that handed out a hundred bucks per month as allowance). Both parties cause so much pain, suffering and harm to the world, not just the middle east, and they are so far away from anything I and a lot of people would find even remotely satisfactory, that it's ridiculous to vote for them. Both are moving to the exact opposite direction to my ideals and aggressively so. Their differences are literally miniscule.
There is necessarily a point where the lesser evil doesn't hold, for everyone. Our difference is that you are not at that point yet. Your ideals and criteria are different and frankly you don't care about the Palestinians that much supporting a genocide perpetrator, you don't care enough to vote third party or not vote.
Cause she is a Zionist, genocide perpetrator and that's a given(Biden is even bragging multiple times about how no one has helped Israel as much as his cabinet ever - and he's right), nobody denies that besides people like you who are tasked with convincing the left wing to vote for your stupid party.
It's sad and disgusting to me to have to explain myself on how the democrats go against my and the people's interests and I can't continue discussing this with you. I'm obviously talking through you, you don't come for arguments, you come to make me vote for your abomination of a party. You know what they say, you can't make someone understand something, when it's in their direct interest to not understand it. Have a nice day
"it's sad a disgusting to me to have to explain myself on how democrat's go against my and the people's interest"
Your wall of text is full of strawman arguments and made up assumptions. No doubt you argue alot when you argue with yourself on points nobody made.
And as soon as she wins her team starts thinking about her second term, so this still applies, but if we all help her get re-elected four years from now then maybe we can hope for a positive turn for real.
If productivity is hit during her presidency she can bargain to concede some stuff to get them their sweet profits going again, and other such political tradeoffs that come from strikes/protests.
While she is VP she can't do shit. Rules for rulers. They only think of re-election because that's where americans protest every 4 years, instead of protesting their elected officials while they are in office.
Man doesn't understand rules for rulers.
Harris, as in of the Biden-Harris administration, is complicit and toes the exact same line.
Don't support genocide candidates.
Grown-ups now you can choose heavy genocide Trump or kind of genocide Harris. Grown-ups know you have to pick one.
Trump can be infinitely worse, but do not downplay the atrocities going on right now.
(not American)
I didn't.
This implies that either she is planning on taking a different approach than Biden (of which I haven’t seen any indication), or you don’t think the current atrocities are a genocide.
(again, I’m not American)
https://www.axios.com/2024/10/16/israel-gaza-humanitarian-aid-us-weapons
Thanks for playing. Next.
You were wrong 9 days ago because this is not the first thing they've done to try and stop Israel. The fact that you have to lie proves my point.
They’ve done nothing to stop them, evidenced by the fact that the genocide is still ongoing. They sanctioned exactly two settlers, and delayed 1 (one) arms shipment. They’re threatening the ICC not to issue the arrest warrant for bibi. And now they have actual boots on the ground.
EDIT: spamming the putin gif doesn’t make anyone you disagree with a russian bot
The genocide is happening under Democratic control through the Biden/Harris administration and the biggest crackdowns on protests are happening in blue states like California and New York possibly even more so than red states like Texas. There is no "kind of" about Harris's stance on genocide.
https://www.axios.com/2024/10/16/israel-gaza-humanitarian-aid-us-weapons
Thanks for playing. Next.
Biden-Harris genocide is probably more harmful as it gets liberals to consent to it, both domestically and through more competent foreign policy maneuvers. Though even then they are pushing beyond what the NatSec should want.
Though really, I don't think I should need to say or repeat this: you should oppose genocide. Attempting to lesser evil it is disgusting and, of course, very poor logic.
What about Ukraine? Trump will hand over everyone in that country while speeding up climate change with "drill baby drill". As the world becomes less livable, more wars and genocide will fallow.
First, under no circumstances should you support genocide. Stop trying to excuse genocide. Actually fight against it. You know that question, "what would you have done against the Holocaust?" Right now it would be, "fret about which Hitler to support and make excuses about how Jewish people would be killed anyways".
Anyways.
The Biden-Harris administration's policies on Ukraine are exacting maximum pain on the people of Ukraine, using them as a tool to hurt Russia. At every step of the way, only maximum pressure on Russia has been their consideration. So either accept that the most likely outcome of Trump there would be a deescalation or acknowledge that the motivation here is bloodlust.
Ukraine already lost. Its future has been mortgaged to western financial interests and it will not be regaining its lost territories. The people therr have been shelled by Kyiv's far right forces (the ones with Nazi tattoos) for a decade, they aren't sympathetic to Kyiv even if some territory were, under wild circumstances, returned. It was never plausible for Ukraine to win militarily. All of liberals' talk about Ukraine is fantasy children's tales that have nothing to do with reality.
Dragging out Ukraine is just forcing more death and disposession on the Ukrainian people.
The Biden-Harris administration has set record levels of US fossil fuel production and is an exporter of oil and natural gas. Harris has publicly promised to support fracking, a tool that, when novel, Obama used as an international weapon to crash oil prices and hit targets of US empire - Venezuela, Russia, Iran.
Both parties are against the continued survival of humanity re: climate change, one of them just pretends otherwise, throwing money at a domestic renewables industry that largely just routes it to finance and tech rather than produxtive capacity. Oh, and continuing Trump's trade war on China, which is currently threatening to end large swaths of the US solar industry as installations of new solar panels are waaaaay backed up.
So get off your butt and start fighting the good fight! Cheerleading genocidal frackers definitely isn't that.
Taking a little lesser choice isn't cheering. Never complain about anyone else's logic ever again.
Pushing a vote for a genocider is cheerleading. Your role is on the sidelines saying, "go team!" The feigned reluctance doesn't change the role.
Speaking of "ever again", have you ever heard the phrase, "never again"?
https://www.axios.com/2024/10/16/israel-gaza-humanitarian-aid-us-weapons
Thanks for playing. Next.
"Hitler promises to improve concentration camp conditions".
What point do you think you are making?
Thanks for Godwin-ing the threat to prove my point
Some things are actually comparable to Nazis, you know. Like genocide and concentration camps.
I'll take this to mean you have no response.
Adults realize that one is lesser and you can choose lesser or abdicate your choice. Buck up and grow up kiddo
You should be against genocide.
https://www.axios.com/2024/10/16/israel-gaza-humanitarian-aid-us-weapons
Thanks for playing. Next.
Walz supports the "Greater Israel" project, the Harris admin would/will be worse than Biden.
https://www.axios.com/2024/10/16/israel-gaza-humanitarian-aid-us-weapons
Thanks for playing. Next.
Gotcha, genocide is fine if you send some petty aid to the population you are obliterating.
If you're trying to stop them from dying, it's literally the opposite of genocide, but do go on Putin puppet
They are giving the IDF the tools it uses to commit genocide and encouraging invasion into Lebanon. Petty aid doesn't mean it isn't genocide.