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A question about passwords | characters used in them (programming.dev)

submitted 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) by FinancesDrone98@programming.dev to c/programming@programming.dev

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Why do so many companies and people say that your password has to be so long and complicated, just to have restrictions?

I am in the process of changing some passwords (I have peen pwnd and it’s the password I use for use-less-er sites) and suddenly they say “password may contain a maximum of 15 characters“… I mean, 15 is long but it’s nothing for a password manager.

And then there’s the problem with special characters like äàáâæãåā ñ ī o ė ß ÿ ç just to name a few, or some even won’t let you type a [space] in them. Why is that? Is it bad programming? Or just a symptom of copy-pasta?

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[–] uniqueid198x@lemmy.dbzer0.com 15 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Yes its bad programing. These restrictions suggest that the company is either doing improper storage and processing, or does not understand how to deal with passwords.

The proper password storage is a hash. This is a cryptographic function that is easy to do and imbossible to undo. The hash function operates on the underlying binary representation of your password, and doesn't card what letters or symbols are in it. A program should take your password, hash it, and compare the result to the hash they have in their detebase.

The current recomended hash algorythm is called 'bcrypt'. Depending on the implementation, the input is between 50 and 70 bytes (the spec was a little unclear so people defined the inputs diferently, but the algorithe is the same). This means a password should be able to take at least 50 normal keyboard characters, including letters, symbols, and spaces. Anything less than that indicates a poor practice on behalf of the website.

(a lot of this is simplified. There is some variation and nuance that I don't think affects the main idea)

[–] eu8@lemmy.world 4 points 1 year ago

Well we don't know how that website is actually storing the password. They may well be using a password hash. Also, you should use scrypt or argon over bcrypt IMO. And there should be no upper restrictions on password length. argon2 can handle hashing megabytes of data in about the same time as a short password, so there's never a need to limit the password length.

[–] AzzyDev@beehaw.org 2 points 1 year ago (2 children)

What about Argon2id? What are the advantages of bcrypt?

[–] uniqueid198x@lemmy.dbzer0.com 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I don't really know the strong points of either, I'm not a cryptographer. Bcrypt gets recommended because its relatively fast, its decent, and most importantly its already in most environments

[–] frezik@midwest.social 2 points 1 year ago

Bcrypt is slow on purpose; all these methods are. More importantly, though, bcrypt is very well studied. Scrypt and argon2 had to catch up, but should be fine at this point.

[–] dog@suppo.fi 1 points 1 year ago

Argon2 is the best (secure) crypto currently.

That said, adoption is slow, Bitwarden only recently implemented it for example.

That said, due to Argon2 being security-oriented, the recommended settings for it are pretty heavy.