this post was submitted on 31 Oct 2024
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I'm guessing it's like Christianity where there are leftist Christians who follow Jesus' more progressive messages such as giving to the less fortunate and healing the sick, and then there are the scary Christian evangelicals that want A Handmaids Tale and conversion therapy. Logically, Islam probably isn't a monolith in a similar way other religions aren't.

However, I have never heard about what those of the Islamic faith actually believe outside of the hysterical post 9/11 Islamophobia I've been indoctrinated with as a child.

I want to know what the truth is and hear the other sides story. To me it's obvious that Islamophobia is wrong, however when Islamophobes make wild claims about it, I can't really refute them confidently because I'm simply ignorant of the facts. Please educate my dumb, white ass.

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[–] Neptium@hexbear.net 22 points 2 weeks ago (14 children)

I was debating whether to respond to this or not and how to respond to this.

Mandatory general reading:

Orientalism, Edward Said and Eurocentrism, Samir Amin

I will link this article again, titled: Gay universalism, homoracialism and « marriage for all » by Houria Bouteldja.

I can also list various writers and works across the Islamic world, from Islamic feminism, Islamic liberation theology, decolonial marxists, to Islamic socialists. But I think that may not be helpful because again we are stuck in this false dichotomy of “liberal” and “conservatism”. Of a rigid notion of “progress” and “reaction”, which I might add spits in the face of dialectics.

I can’t fault those that believe in a linear progress of history. Early Marxism itself was tainted with such notions until the 20th century.

So instead I will posit this question:

If we are to believe that gender and sexuality are socially situated within a specific cultural and time dependent context, then why do we assume that terms derived from such contexts like “homophobia” and “misogyny” are universally applicable and can be compared across different regions and areas of the globe?

This is not to discredit the admirable goal of internationalism, of universalising the struggle, but we then have to ask ourselves if this “internationalism” is based on actual applicability of it’s critique to the entire world or merely a projection based on false conceptions, with aid from the cultural and political hegemony of US-led Capital?

Also I’d like to note: if the Communists and “Progressives” were correct and listened to the masses in the Islamic World, they would have won. But they did not. So who is at fault here?

[–] robot_dog_with_gun@hexbear.net 9 points 2 weeks ago (12 children)

If we are to believe that gender and sexuality are socially situated within a specific cultural and time dependent context, then why do we assume that terms derived from such contexts like “homophobia” and “misogyny” are universally applicable and can be compared across different regions and areas of the globe?

because eurochristians exported that bullshit and imposed it upon most of the world?

implying muslim cultures aren't predominantly heteropatriarchal is probably some kind of orientalism

[–] afters@hexbear.net 7 points 1 week ago (3 children)

implying muslim cultures aren't predominantly heteropatriarchal is probably some kind of orientalism

what the fuck am I reading

[–] boboblaw@hexbear.net 6 points 1 week ago (1 children)

Something something Muslims are the real racists.

It's actually racist to deny that Muslim cultures are inherently misogynistic.

I will never stop Hoxha-posting.

Americans (and their simps) will literally devastate a Muslim country, install the most psychotic fundamentalists in power, and then have the audacity to say shit like

"I'm a leftist but why is it that despite being 20% of the population, Muslims commit 90% of the misogyny and homophobia? Must just be characteristic of the Islamic brainpan."

Fun fact: The word "Hoxha" means

Noun

hoxhë m (plural hoxhë, definite hoxha, definite plural hoxhët) imam

The man from a family of Islamic teachers led the majority Muslim country through the most extensive improvement of women's rights in history. Women went from being essentially chattel property and rarely getting rudimentary schooling, to being almost half the government, scientists, doctors, engineers in a few decades.

The sheer audacity of westerners to make such presumptions about "Muslim cultures" is mind-boggling. A Muslim country hit the communism button and completely rebuilt the social order, uplifting women to a position better than that of any in the west, and how does the west respond?

By trying, tooth and nail, to destroy it. And after they've destroyed it, western so-called leftists will opine that Muslim cultures just be misogynistic like that.

[–] robot_dog_with_gun@hexbear.net 2 points 1 week ago (1 children)

Something something Muslims are the real racists.

It's actually racist to deny that Muslim cultures are inherently misogynistic.

no, i mean that saying they're so wildly different from the patriarchal homophobic west that we shouldn't use terms like "patriarchy" would also be orientalist.

the progressivism of now-fallen socialist governments does not outweigh the majority of current societies. east and west are both predominantly patriarchal, largely but not exclusively because of european christian exports and imperialism

[–] boboblaw@hexbear.net 1 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago)

the progressivism of now-fallen socialist governments does not outweigh the majority of current societies. east and west are both predominantly patriarchal, largely but not exclusively because of european christian exports and imperialism

Fair enough. I guess after they've fallen to the American Empire, they're not even really a Muslim culture anymore. Capitalist vassal states first and foremost. kitty-cri-texas

Like, what happened to usury being haram?

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