this post was submitted on 08 Nov 2024
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Pierre Pollievres inevitable upcoming victory is just depressing as shit. I hope Quebec votes bloc just for the middle finger factor, but the sad truth is they will probably break conservative too.
I normally vote NDP even though where I live is usually a Liberal stronghold, but this time I'm tempted to vote Bloc.
As much as the public sentiment is against Trudeau, voting for whoever can best prevent a Conservative majority is my pragmatic protest vote.
ABC is always my vote (that means green for me). This could actually be quite the opportunity for NDP/green to pick up seats. If Mr.PP really steps in it andloses support and NDP gets off their ass and gains support it wouldn't be totally impossible to have some freaky 5-way power struggle. Probably wishful thinking, but I think with a lot of coordination and luck it could happen
I am firmly planted in your dream/vision, thankfully my riding usually goes NDP
One big problem with our voting system. If I do like the person running for a certain party locally, that means I'm effectively voting for the same party at the federal level. What if I think the federal leader is not the best choice?
If there was a Bloc rep in my Ontario riding I would be carefully considering them vs my own NDP rep.
It's surprising that no other province or group of provinces ever created their own version of the Bloc...
I doubt we could do much worse if we just elected 11 different provincial/territorial lobby groups that have to caucus together to pass laws.
That's my opinion as well, or even grouped lobbies (BC, prairies, Ontario, Quebec, Maritimes + NFLD, territories)
The only provinces where this would have any impact at all are Quebec and Ontario. Ontario has just over a third of the seats, Quebec has about a quarter. British Columbia and Alberta have just over 10%, everyone else has less. If everyone in New Brunswick voted for the hypothetical New Brunswick First Party, whoever actually ran the show quite likely wouldn't even think of the whopping 10 votes they could bring to the table. Moreover, Quebec is the most homogeneous province in Canada, so a province first party has better odds there than anywhere else.
I'd much rather we had national parties that were looking for the best interests of all the regions, and citizens that didn't seem to firmly believe that a benefit for someone else implies harm to them.
"Quebec is the most homogenous province"
Eh...
https://www12.statcan.gc.ca/census-recensement/2016/dp-pd/hlt-fst/imm/Table.cfm?Lang=E&T=41&Geo=00&SP=1&vismin=2&age=1&sex=1
More visible minorities than all the Atlantic provinces, all territories and Saskatchewan and that doesn't even take into consideration the white Anglo minority.
You could also have groups of provinces with their own party so they would have some weight to them.
Also defending the interests of a province first and foremost doesn't necessarily go against the interests of other provinces as the same gains apply to them as well.
If you count all white people as one group, yes, it is more diverse than some provinces. Given the years of wars and political division between two particular groups of white people that is behind those divisions, I don't think visible minorities are a particularly relevant point in this topic.
Did you look at the website? Choose all visible minorities, Quebec is at 13%, which is more than all the places I mentioned. What is homogeneity if not the % of people that are ethnically part of the majority, i.e. not part of the group that's considered diversity?
The white Anglo minority also counts as diversity as they're culturally different from the white Franco majority, just like in other provinces the white Franco minority counts as diversity because they are culturally different from the white Anglo majority.
Yes, and I don't see Ukrainian, German, Polish on that list, let alone the more relevant two I referred to, British and French.
If you look at the Wikipedia page for the 2016 census you will see that about 89% self-identify as Canadian or French. So what counts as Canadian? The Wikipedia page for that says they're mostly French Canadians and British Canadians, with a few other of the United Kingdoms thrown in for good measure.
So let's focus on French Canadians. There are about 5 million of those in Canada, and about 85% live in Quebec, or 51% of that 60.1% who identify as Canadian in the above census.
Now, back to that 2016 census. 89% as one thing, more or less, just isn't accurate. But 79.8% is. And that nearly 80% is more than enough to overwhelm the rest into irrelevance in FPTP voting unless those who don't consider themselves French or French Canadian are concentrated into a few areas, in which case they won't be completely irrelevant, but they will still only take away a few votes for a party whose primary interest was to the demographics listed above.
Now go ahead and find me another province nearly that ethnically homogeneous. And since I was never talking about skin color, instead of using the visible minority page, try out the Ethnic Origin page instead.
First province on that list, Newfoundland, 91.4% Canadian or English... So yep, Quebec isn't the most homogenous, nice try though!
Also, not a very good tool considering that people can reply more than one thing.
"Well, my point has been proven wrong, time to focus on pedantry."
In the name of pedantry, I could change the text to "the province with the single largest ethnic group", which I think could be argued as a suitable definition of the term "most homogenous". Or would it make you happier if I disparaged the smaller provinces by saying "the most homogenous province of any political significance"?
And I can't see if it's you who's downvoting or not, but commenting and downvoting gives a real "my comments can't stand on their own" vibe, which is fitting.
Again, white French Quebecois and Anglo Quebecois are two distinct ethnic groups and they're ethnically distinct from most French or Anglo Quebecois that immigrated here more recently (those that don't consider their ethnicity to be French or British in origin).
You would realize that if you understood the definition of ethnicity, I'll invite you to Google that.
And yes I'm downvoting you because you're arguing in bad faith by bringing up sources that don't apply and that contradict you.
Don't know why it's so hard to accept that Quebec isn't the most homogenous province, but I bet you're from Ontario or Alberta so you just have a bad opinion of Quebec and don't know anything about the other provinces.
Being the most homogenous population of any significance is neither bad nor good. If you felt that was an insult maybe you should consider why. Homogeneity due to isolationism is bad because of isolationism, which is strongly linked to the idea of regional parties at the national level. Thanks for your help in displaying the flaws in those ideologies as demonstrated by your taking offense when facts you apparently don't like are displayed in the open.
I take offense in people using lies and bad information as arguments against my points, that's all.
How many provinces have four main parties and a fifth one that gets over 10% of the votes? Talk about homogeneity!
Have a good life now!
If you're in a region where it might go either way, vote strategically to get anyone but conservatives in, if that's the Bloc then so be it. I personally have always voted for them since I live somewhere where it's either them or the Liberals and I believe in what the Bloc stands for, but remember, in the end they're there to defend Quebec's interests first and foremost and provincial policies impact you much more than federal ones and even if there's a referendum at some point you can just vote against it if you're not a separatist.
It's fucking ridiculous that the only party with significant seats that doesn't want to expand the tarsands also want to break up the country. Maybe Canada is too stupid to exist.
Canada is very much a collection of separate interests that banded together for pragmatic reasons. All this nationalist nonsense people espouse is entirely manufactured. The idea that there even SHOULD be a national identity is bullshit. There should absolutely be a way for groups to leave again when it is no longer in their pragmatic interest to stay.
I mean, Quebec doesn't evenn really want to leave. Legault has found a winning strategy that will keep his party in power for decades: Never hold a referendum, but leverage that notwithstanding clause and general nationalist animus to take and horde as much power in this province as possible forever. That way everything that goes wrong is because of the feds, and everything that goes right is because of the glorious CAQ.
Have you seen Legault's numbers? 😂 His party is getting wiped out of Quebec come next election and the PQ will be reborn unless the Liberals elect the Messiah as their leader!
Glorious, I love to see it. At least the PQ pretend to be progressives when they aren't selling out the north to foreign mining companies, restricting minority rights and generally sucking shit.
Last poll i saw (when he tried to reverse gov) was 50%+ bloc followed by 25% ish cfor the con
I've learned from previous elections (and possibly too late) that I shouldn't be voting "strategically". If does the same as I do then we'll keep sliding right l,like the US.
Vote for what you believe in and let the party politics follow. Anything is a betrayal to yourself. Don't feel bad for voting for the unlikely candidate - especially if you've already voted for election reform.
I worry that Pollievre will happily invigorate the Quebec separatist movement.
I'm at a stage in my life where I value stability. I feel like my family can weather many storms, but Canada crumbling isn't one of them.
Lil'PP is about to lose Quebec big time based on polls numbers but he will have a majority without Quebec like Harper managed to get once.