this post was submitted on 16 Nov 2024
40 points (90.0% liked)

transgender

1945 readers
1 users here now

Welcome to lemmy.ml/c/transgender! This is a community for sharing transgender or gender diverse related news articles, posts, and support for the community.

Rules:

  1. Bigotry, transphobia, racism, nationalism, and chauvinism are not allowed.

  2. Selfies are not permitted for the safety of users.

  3. No surveys or studies.

  4. Debating transgender rights is not allowed. Transgender rights are human rights. Debating transgender healthcare is not allowed. Transgender healthcare is a necessity.

  5. No civility policing transgender people. Transgender people have a right to be angry about transphobia and be rude to transphobes.

  6. If you are cis, do not downvote posts. We don't like you manipulating our community.

  7. Posts about dysphoria/trauma/transphobia should be NSFW tagged for community health purposes.

  8. For both cis and trans people: Please alter your username (if possible) to include pronouns (or lack thereof, or questioning) so no one misgenders anyone. details. This rule is important for maintaining a safe place. If you can't change your ID, please let a mod know and include it in your bio.

  9. Leftist infighting is not allowed.

Please remember to report posts that break any of these rules, it makes our job easier!


If you are looking for a more secure and safe trans space, we suggest you visit https://hexbear.net/c/traaaaaaannnnnnnnnns. While we will try our best, lemmy.ml/c/transgender is far more open to the fediverse, and also to trolls. One of the site admins of lemmy.ml, nutomic, is also a transphobe, while hexbear is ran mostly by trans people and has a very active trans community.

founded 5 years ago
MODERATORS
 

In relation to the recent Indiana ban for transgender youth care, some thoughts that I think have a broader outlook as rebuttals of a commonly held trope that adolescents can't give medical consent to gender treatment.

Also consider this BBC article about a judge deciding under 16s might not be able to consent to gender care in the UK AFAIK this had been later overturned on appeal . As for one of the cases explored in the dishonest Reuters article debunked by Vaush it turns out one of the cases (the trans boy one) under Ontario laws where he lives, he had medical consent since he was 15. So Why is it different for transgender care specifically?

Here are my thoughts:

Adolescents presented as "technically kids" always gets my gears grinding, since it is dishonest to equate adolescents and children on so many levels. For example they might have medical consent which should be enough. They might drive in some places, and also they can have intimate relations to another adolescent. Toddlers can't do any of that. There are grades of consent that are legally and rationally different between adolescents and kids, so "technically a kid" is a far fetch, a dishonest prevarication, and just plain wrong on so many levels.

They just don't say that when kids of essentially the same age are allowed to get married and become "technically" parents. They don't say a word for actual infant mutilation in the cases of intersex genital normalization surgeries, nor circumcision. They did not get out of the way to ban breast enhancement in teenage cis girls. They just never fucking uttered "they are technically kids" in any of these equivalent cases.

And there is another underlying problem, that most advocates fail to bring up while they are distracted by bullshit like the "technically kids" fallacy. That in contrast to strictly sexual orientation and needs that start during and after puberty, gender identity is something that manifests way earlier, typically in early childhood. This is extensively documented before the 2020s craze with transgender condemnation.

Mind you, transphobes have dealt with and exploited this fact for a long time. It is not that they do not know it. They do, but they strategically suppress it all the same. There are at least two ways they know and leverage this fact: in separating trans people into genuine and fake, like with the "homosexual transexual" pseudoscience; and in developing and popularizing concepts of social contagion of transgender ideation in adolescent. Even though implicitly, both notions require that true transexuals manifest themselves during childhood, but none of the real trans people we hear about are true trans. This is in turn the True Scotsman fallacy.

you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
[โ€“] grue@lemmy.world 7 points 1 week ago (4 children)

Cis guy here (pardon the intrusion). From my perspective, the stupidest thing about the "debate" -- and the thing that really reveals the bad-faith agenda of the anti-trans people -- isn't the age/capacity for consent aspect directly. It's the fact that (if i'm not mistaken) we're mostly talking about puberty blockers. That's the opposite of "gender-affirming" care; it's "gender-delaying!"

If the people making the "adolescents are too young to make the decision" argument were doing so honestly, letting trans kids take puberty blockers to buy time until they can decide in adulthood is exactly the kind of thing they should enthusiastically support, not oppose.

[โ€“] WalrusDragonOnABike 1 points 1 week ago

Aren't there some medical side effects of taking them for many years? If they're starting at like 11 years old, then its probably best to make a decision about which hormones they're going to take by like 15 IIRC.

Ultimately though, even if the idea effects are actually just a dog whistle of transphobes, adolescents are taking hormones with or without medical intervention and taking the wrong one can do permanent damage to the body. The only person who can even remotely know which is right is the person themself. If we allow and adolescents to go through puberty, we"re already admitting that hormones are something adolescents should be allowed to take and the only difference in which ones they are allowed is because transphobia.

load more comments (3 replies)