this post was submitted on 21 Nov 2024
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    Windows VS Linux (lemmy.world)
    submitted 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) by trespasser69@lemmy.world to c/linuxmemes@lemmy.world
     
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    [–] frayedpickles@lemmy.cafe 49 points 1 month ago (20 children)

    Windows requires pressing next 12 times, what are you people smoking and can I haz?

    [–] Ilovethebomb@lemm.ee 23 points 1 month ago (3 children)

    There's also a number of things you have to click "no" on, like a free trial office or Onedrive.

    It took me around an hour to set up my new Win 11 laptop, most of which was downloading and installing updates. I expected far worse.

    [–] Jyek@sh.itjust.works 12 points 1 month ago (5 children)

    Oh please, we spend an hour fucking around in a new Linux install to get things the way we like them too.

    [–] Limitless_screaming@lemmy.world 10 points 1 month ago (2 children)

    A new Linux installation is usually usable and you spend an hour tailoring it to your specific needs. While in a new Windows installation I spend the first hour remembering things that'll start popping up/executing in the background and disabling them just to get it to a usable state.

    [–] Jyek@sh.itjust.works 4 points 1 month ago (1 children)

    Just learn how to install windows the way you want it to be just like you learn the best way to install a distro. Debloated windows takes minutes to install and takes so little actual effort if you know what you're doing.

    [–] Limitless_screaming@lemmy.world 4 points 1 month ago (1 children)

    I probably cannot get Windows to be the way I like it. They make every change I want to make a pain, and the ways to circumvent their shenanigans are always changing. Setting up a local account, changing your default browser, stopping onedrive from wasting your time, all of these should be quick and simple changes, but they just wouldn't let you choose for yourself, they have to shove their products and settings down your throat with every new installation, update, and misclick. I spent more than an hour setting up a new installation and I still find new ways Edge can start itself, I cannot imagine the time it would take for me to make this as usable as a simple Linux installation with some changes to the DE.

    [–] Honytawk@lemmy.zip 1 points 1 month ago (1 children)

    All of these changes you list can be achieved in a couple of clicks.

    Don't know what you are smoking my dude.

    [–] Limitless_screaming@lemmy.world 1 points 1 month ago (1 children)

    At some point changing the default browser required setting each file type's default app one by one. Using a local account once was a normal option then it became hidden and required setting up some questions then you had to disconnect from Wi-Fi and now it's not a visible option and you have to get around it with some command. This may take you some clicks when you've already installed Windows before, but it's heading towards simply not being an option, and setting up a usable Linux installation is already much easier today.

    [–] Honytawk@lemmy.zip 1 points 1 month ago (1 children)

    This may take you some clicks when you’ve already installed Windows before

    Those same clicks can be used by everyone

    but it’s heading towards simply not being an option

    Speculation, not based on facts.

    and setting up a usable Linux installation is already much easier today.

    Only if you know what you are doing. So exactly the same boat as you put Windows in.

    [–] Limitless_screaming@lemmy.world 1 points 1 month ago

    Those same clicks can be used by everyone

    By anyone who knows about them (who have installed Windows before and searched it up).

    Speculation, not based on facts.

    MS didn't tell us directly that local accounts are a thing of the past, but you can easily tell where they're going with this. From local accounts being just an option to having to not setup a network (It won't let you go back after selecting one and clicking "next") to not allowing you to proceed unless you run a command. The next logical step (Yes this is still speculation) is to limit local accounts to business versions of the OS in preparation to remove them entirely.

    Only if you know what you are doing. So exactly the same boat as you put Windows in.

    You're telling me that if you give a random person a live Linux mint / Ubuntu / Endeavor / Manjaro / any non-elitist distro's usb, they wouldn't be able to click next and choose a username and password? I find it hard to believe, but even if that was the case, It would be because of a misunderstanding or unintentional bad UI/UX, not the OS acting against your will.

    [–] Lightor@lemmy.world 1 points 1 month ago

    Man, people are really liberal with the word "usable" around here. As if a plain windows install is somehow this thing that can't be understood or used. Come on, it makes it hard to take these convos seriously. Millions of people use just plain, out of the box, Windows.

    [–] ftbd@feddit.org 6 points 1 month ago

    No, see: some of us spend countless hours setting up their NixOS config repo, which is totally worth it because you save half an hour when moving to a new machine

    [–] yonder@sh.itjust.works 3 points 1 month ago (3 children)

    I would argue it takes even longer to get a windows install how I like it. Even using Chris Titus Tech's tool, it probably takes 2 hours for me to install things like winget, steam, librewolf, libreoffice, blender and configure the task bar and lock screen. Not to mention how last time I checked, I could not rebind the windows key to trigger the app overview how I like it.

    [–] Jyek@sh.itjust.works 4 points 1 month ago (1 children)

    How often are you installing windows? I deploy probably 7-8 a week. I can have an image usable without telemetry in 10 minutes.

    [–] yonder@sh.itjust.works 4 points 1 month ago

    I seldom install windows, so I also have to relearn some things during the debloat. At 10 minutes, you are basically speedrunning the windows installation process lol.

    [–] frayedpickles@lemmy.cafe 4 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

    That's not windows tho, that's setting up your entire fucking digital life to your satisfaction. The meme is about like, going to the task bar and telling Microsoft "no this isnt just a shitty gnome, please use my entire monitor"

    For everything else just use winget-ui and install everything you want

    [–] Ilovethebomb@lemm.ee 2 points 1 month ago

    How I want a windows install is "working, with no BS".

    It comes out the box working, all I needed to do was disable Onedrive on boot. I haven't even bothered to change the background, and probably won't.

    [–] frayedpickles@lemmy.cafe 1 points 1 month ago

    Thaaaaank you for being the fucking voice of reason

    [–] Revan343@lemmy.ca 1 points 1 month ago

    Getting Mint the way I like it takes about 20 minutes, including the install itself.

    Of course, I usually spend four or five hours trying other distros first, before eventually deciding on Mint.

    [–] arc@lemm.ee 2 points 1 month ago (1 children)

    And downloading updates is a good thing. Means that the fresh installation isn't vulnerable to something that was fixed between when the USB / DVD was pressed and the time the person installed it.

    [–] Ilovethebomb@lemm.ee 1 points 1 month ago

    Yeah, and you can wander off and do something else in the meantime.

    [–] uncertainty@lemmy.nz 2 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (1 children)

    The updates often do take many times the install time which can be a bit frustrating, though it is an area being worked on: https://techcommunity.microsoft.com/blog/windows-itpro-blog/introducing-windows-11-checkpoint-cumulative-updates/4182552

    [–] Ilovethebomb@lemm.ee 1 points 1 month ago

    It's honestly not that bad, it's not like you're required to actually do anything while this is happening.

    [–] Peasley@lemmy.world 2 points 1 month ago (1 children)

    See, Ubuntu only requires pressing next 6 times, and Fedora is only 8.

    That's essentially what it boils down to nowadays.

    [–] frayedpickles@lemmy.cafe 2 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (1 children)

    Unless you want tpm backed full disk encryption in which case.... Good luck

    One click for Mac and windows, a lifetime of fun for Linux (except arch w/sysdboot which works pretty good)

    [–] Peasley@lemmy.world 2 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (1 children)

    I'm happy with regular password FDE, i think i'm more likely to encounter hardware failure (and then need to read the drive from another machine) than theft of the drive.

    It's a good point though, I'm sure many people do need this feature. Ubuntu is "working on it" but so far i guess it's mostly not working except for VMs

    [–] frayedpickles@lemmy.cafe 2 points 1 month ago (1 children)

    I have a media center that serves over the internet via VPN, I don't want to leave it unencrypted but I also don't want to have to go home and type in a pass every time California has a power outage, which is monthly during the dry fire season and >monthly during the "storm" season. I wouldn't care as much for my personal laptop or anything, but for servers it seems like an absolute must have and..what is Linux for if not servers?

    [–] Peasley@lemmy.world 1 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (1 children)

    I think the traditional way to do that is via dm-crypt, which you can set up with an ssh server.

    You can also use a network-shared file rather than a password for LUKS but it's not as straightforward to set up as a password. If you are doing something like tailscale then it'd be unlocked as long as you are on the VPN

    Typing in a password in-person at a data center would be a huge hassle, agreed

    [–] frayedpickles@lemmy.cafe 2 points 1 month ago (1 children)

    But...it's literally what the tpm chip is for. Like there may be other options, but the tpm chip's purpose in life is to do this thing. And it's been doing that for a decade. Seems pretty traditional to me. But Linux folks in some venues treat it like a plague that needs to be eradicated.

    [–] Peasley@lemmy.world 1 points 1 month ago (1 children)

    Looking at RHEL docs it seems to also work there. The same instructions probably work in Fedora but idk I've never done it myself

    [–] frayedpickles@lemmy.cafe 2 points 3 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago)

    I've done the recommendation for opensuse and fedora, both failed to boot properly. Weirdly arch was the easy one that worked out of box.

    [–] duckCityComplex@lemmy.world 1 points 1 month ago (1 children)

    But then you have to wait 45 minutes for Windows update to spin, and potentially hang in the middle

    [–] frayedpickles@lemmy.cafe 4 points 1 month ago (1 children)

    Is it difficult for you to wait?

    [–] duckCityComplex@lemmy.world 2 points 1 month ago

    No, that's fair. Annoying but not difficult.

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