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In China, It’s Already Cheaper to Buy EVs Than Gasoline Cars
(www.washingtonpost.com)
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this post was submitted on 27 Aug 2023
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Are the US and EU late, or is it a deliberate business decision from EV car manufacturers to aim for bigger and luxury cars because they make more profit?
More than 80 percent of new cars sold in Norway now are EVs.
Which also means that all the talk in the US about EVs not being reliable in cold-weather states is just pure crap from politicians trying to protect oil and the gasoline car industry.
Yup. Car and Driver Debunks Cold Weather EV Myts at most you get a 20% decrease in the efficiency of your charge. And EVs are actually better at staying warm while idle/off.
20% is huge on cheaper (i.e not horribly expensive) EV 's when you'll already be on the edge of your range for daily use. Luckily though, most people don't live in northern latitudes.
It depends on a number of factors: outdoor temperature, the model of car, whether climate control is used. At temperatures of an average January daytime high where I live, using climate control, range can decrease by 40% and anecdotally my model is even higher.
They're reliable. They just expend more energy in winter time so you get worse range.
And over 90% if you count PHEVs too. Norway demonstrates electric vehicles are completely viable.
Who are the manufacturers building these cars? I'm curious how many are the very same manufacturers we have in the US and where the disparity occurs.
9/10 of the top EVs are also sold in the United States. The only outlier is the Skoda which is basically a Volkswagen.
No one says they are unreliable. Thier range is just reduced in extreme temperatures. That's a much bigger problem foe the US than it is foe Norway.
China did to EVs what the US did to semiconductors.
The US and EU markets lack competition.
We're late. Our competition sucks (almost certainly on purpose). BYD is taking the slow approach to the US market - early next decade? Reuters: BYD Global EV Push
The US car manufacturers are going to take a protectionist approach to a shrinking market. They've already won this decade - everybone has a massive truck/SUV, no transit, all cars including EVs are an unaffordable luxury to Americans now after "inflation."
The US has protectionist rules about EV grants - car must be assembled in the US to receive tax credits. It's why Teslas sold in the US are assembled in the US whereas Teslas sold in Canada are made in China. There are some comments that the Chinese manufactured cars are actually better quality. It probably also explains why Chinese brands like BYD are focussing more on other markets like Europe.
What are you going on about?
The US car makers (specifically GM and Ford) have been heavily pro-active on the switch to EVs. GM's Volt and Bolt were the first real entries into going electric-hybrid and then full EVs at a lower-cost mass-produced vehicles. Now GM's Ultium platform is easily one of the most advanced systems out there and will be the basis for future GM's full EV cars and trucks for the next few years. It is advanced enough where Honda/Acura are using it for their first real EVs (not counting the 1/2 hearted E which was so overpriced and limited in capabilities that it wasn't even brought to the US). Honda is so far behind, they had to have someone else design and build their upcoming EV Prolog and ZDX vehicles.
The Japanese carmakers are the ones dragging their feet.
I thought they were talking about manufacturing, not brand HQ.
Honda might as well be more American than GM. They produce and sell more vehicles domestically than GM.
It's also because, despite subsidies, shipping costs for materials for EVs (and the necessary factory upgrades) are expensive domestically, but this infrastructure already exists, alongside a very willing market that does not have a political identity tied to ICE engines.
A little bit of Bud Light phobia, a little bit of logistics and retooling costs, and a little bit of government subsidies (of both fuel and ICE engines themselves at all steps of production) all comes together to prolong the life of the ICE in the US.
China is subsidizing EV companies crazy hard. They brought musk in with Tesla to steal all his tech and train their workers to do it too. So bonus points for exploiting Elons hubris and ego. He was going to be first American company to be a leader in the Chinese market without them stealing all his tech. Crazy it didn't work out.
The timeline doesn't add up. Chinese EV makers, including BYD, were building crazy momentum long before Musk set up shop in Shanghai (which was in 2018). It's only come to the attention of the outside world in the last couple of years when their EVs started to get exported at scale, but before they've been brewing this industry for a long time. BYD shipped its first compact EV domestically in 2009.
Yes, because there's no way 5 years is enough time to steal technology and manufacturing techniques and distribute them throughout an industry with a web of government industrial spies. They never do this type of thing so it would take 20 years. I'm sure BYD is making cars exactly like they were 5 years ago. Technology moves so slowly.
Oh, a quick search shows of BYD cars shows me their cars up until around that time looked like a cheap kia from the early 2000s and now the new models look weirdly like a Tesla. I'm sure that's complete coincidence though. China with it's super strict IP laws and parents should never steal anything.
China has many more competent engineers then... any other country. They often steal ideas (everybody does), and even whole designs (less of everybody does). But i doubt they stole anything for ev-s. Making the "car" part is harder then the "electric part", especially for china.
LOL
Funniest thing I've heard in a long time.
Tell me you know fuck-all about engineering and manufacturing without telling me you know fuck-all about engineering and manufacturing.
The frog in a well knows nothing of the sea.
Imagine thinking a "theft" of the idea of a trash can looking like a futuristic car dreamed of by kids in the 90s is something to cry over.
They were very far ahead in many technical areas until recently. Revisionist history is silly.
Tell me you know nothing about Chinese EVs without telling me you know nothing about Chinese EVs. BYD's best sellers are actually plug-in hybrids, which is in no way "stolen" from Tesla.
Whatever happened to hybrids? Why did we all the sudden decide we need to push for 100% electric nationwide?
Hybrids were an necessity when large batteries weren't feasable (in the first Leaf, for example, the 24kw battery was about 80% of the cost, it's amazing they could sell it at a profit at all).
Falling prices and increased capacity means that isn't really the case any more, and it's not really worth the complexity of a hybrid.
Hybrids have all the issues of both combustion and electric cars and none of the benefits. Well, except for fast refueling.
Hybrids were a great transition technology that never got as widespread as it should have, but now pure EVs are practical, and approach legacy car prices. They’re still a little high but it’s in the ballpark enough that the low operating cost make it worthwhile