this post was submitted on 15 Mar 2025
1440 points (93.7% liked)

Memes

48612 readers
2335 users here now

Rules:

  1. Be civil and nice.
  2. Try not to excessively repost, as a rule of thumb, wait at least 2 months to do it if you have to.

founded 5 years ago
MODERATORS
 
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
[–] F_OFF_Reddit@lemmy.world 7 points 1 day ago (18 children)

Nah communism is shit, same with trickle down economics... you can have a bit of capitalism and a bit of socialism in a healthy mix of free trade economy with regulations.

Like we do in Europe, because if you do not regulate the free market it'll stop being free in a generation. Like it's happened in the US.

[–] MarxMadness@lemmygrad.ml 9 points 19 hours ago

you can have a bit of capitalism and a bit of socialism in a healthy mix of free trade economy with regulations

I used to believe this, and I also used to argue against socialists on the same exact grounds.

At some point I noticed that all those nice little bits of socialism that rounded off the edges of capitalism kept getting rolled back. Then I read more about how those safety nets were put up in the first place -- I found out they were all bought with the blood of people much farther left than me, and I saw how violently capitalists opposed them. I found that a lot of the reason those safety nets were so nice for so long in the Global North was that our countries were slaughtering people by the millions (again, a lot of leftists) elsewhere in the world to prop capitalism up.

At that point I stopped just nodding along to all the campfire stories about socialist countries. Maybe, like my standard U.S. education had missed a lot of pretty important things about how capitalism works, it had similarly missed some important things about how socialism works.

[–] bennieandthez@lemmygrad.ml 18 points 23 hours ago* (last edited 23 hours ago)

typical european "we are a garden" centrist, i wonder how europe accumulated its capital on the first place!

[–] Schmoo@slrpnk.net 49 points 1 day ago (1 children)

I don't know if you've noticed, but Europe is sliding into fascism too, just not as quickly. Regulating capitalism treats the symptoms and not the disease, and so it can only ever bring temporary relief. The problems we are experiencing now are not the product of a broken system, they are the inevitable result of capitalist economics, no matter how restrained.

[–] merdaverse@lemmy.world 22 points 1 day ago

Oh boy, another batch of centrists coming in from the Reddit shitstorm... This one oblivious to the fact that far right parties are gaining traction all over Europe.

[–] Objection@lemmy.ml 33 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (1 children)

Yeah, or like they do in China.

Unfortunately for many parts of the world, it doesn't matter if you're trying to go full socialist or not, if you get in the way of multinational exploitation and neocolonialism, you're gonna get couped. There's no shortage of left-leaning non-socialists who have also been targeted by the CIA. Like Guatemala, where they just wanted to do basic land reform so farmers could work their own land, but Chiquita didn't like that so it became the origin of the term "Banana Republic."

[–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 14 points 1 day ago (2 children)

This isn't true, though. You can't have a "little bit of Socialism" and a "little bit of Capitalism," Socialism and Capitalism are descriptors of overall economies. Regulation in a Capitalist system is still Capitalism, Europe in particular is Imperialist (and increasingly moving to fascism as they fade from relevance in the global stage).

Socialism, on the other hand, absolutely works, and is why the PRC is overtaking everyone else at the moment.

[–] Liberal_Ghost@lemmy.zip 6 points 1 day ago (2 children)

Yeah, but how is the quality of life for the average person in the PRC? Honest question, because I don't know. I'm American they would have us believe that the average Chinese citizen is living one step of from a factory slave.

[–] MarxMadness@lemmygrad.ml 10 points 19 hours ago

I’m American they would have us believe that the average Chinese citizen is living one step of from a factory slave.

Download RedNote and see for yourself. You'll never get a full picture from social media alone, but you can see a lot.

[–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 18 points 1 day ago (1 children)

Varies dramatically depending on where you live, because China is an extremely rapidly developing country that was as poor as Haiti is today 100 years ago. Quality of life overall is good, and rising rapidly.

I know this doesn't say actual statistics and stats, but watching videos that actually show China can help de-mystify it.

[–] MarxMadness@lemmygrad.ml 8 points 19 hours ago (1 children)

China is an extremely rapidly developing country that was as poor as Haiti is today 100 years ago.

I'd say 75, at the end of the Civil War. The firsthand descriptions of rural China from Fanshen come from around that period and are basically late-feudal, but ravaged by a few decades of major wars.

[–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 8 points 19 hours ago

Fair enough, good point comrade.

[–] azalty@jlai.lu -5 points 16 hours ago (1 children)

Not really sure about taking China as an example for something "working"...

[–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 7 points 16 hours ago (1 children)

Why not? It's rapidly overtaking everyone else, and has made massive strides for workers. What would you call it?

[–] azalty@jlai.lu -5 points 15 hours ago (1 children)

A place where human rights are not respected

[–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 6 points 14 hours ago

Can you elaborate? They have a better respect for human rights than the vast majority of states.

[–] withabeard@sh.itjust.works 13 points 1 day ago (5 children)

Needs v wants

Needs: healthcare, utilities, public transport, even a minimal but quality food source. Even to the point of utilitarian but working phones/devices. State ownership where profits are minimal but go back into the state. The services aren't necessarily free, but are run without massive shareholder payouts.

Wants: upgrades and luxuries. iPhones, treat foods, nice cars, silk bedding and those ridiculous marshmallow shoes everyone loves. Regulated but free market.

Now all your basic needs are covered by the community together. You could probably live a simple life with very little income. If you want luxury or fancy, feel free to work too get it.

load more comments (5 replies)
[–] m532@lemmygrad.ml 11 points 1 day ago

Europe has the whole "pretend we're better than everyone else" into "kill all nonwhites" bullshit going, better kill em before they hitler again

[–] Alenalda@lemmy.world 5 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago)

if you do not regulate the free market

Wtf are you talking about. There is no such thing as a free market.

load more comments (9 replies)