this post was submitted on 15 Mar 2025
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"Liberal" means different things in Europe vs America, and that confusion has been specifically exploited by propagandists as well, just making things worse.
I myself am a stupid american. I cannot say that I've read any great works of philosophy that discuss the espoused ideals of political movements.
What I have read are dictionary definitions. I have observed how people behave, what people think these words mean, and how almost everyone who gives themselves a label is either a liar or just wrong. Obviously, this is about the american versions of the words.
Liberals: "everything sucks, but it could suck less if we put in a tiny amount of effort to fix things. You may be mildly inconvenienced by these efforts."
Conservatives: "everything sucks and it's the libs' fault! They changed things and now everything sucks! Fuck {insert racial slur here}!"
Communists: "everything sucks and it's the libs' fault! They're just as fascist as the conservatives because capitalism!"
Republicans: "We're conservatives!" (they're actually fascists)
Democrats: "We're liberals!" (some of them are, but most of them are conservatives. Also spineless failures, but that part isn't important to this conversation.)
Am I on to something here, or am I just stupid?
yeah, that seems to me how people use these words
nevertheless, "liberalism" used to have an actual definition. it meant somebody would would say "things are allowed unless they are forbidden", which is contrary to the anti-liberal (sometimes identified as conservative) view that "things are forbidden unless they are allowed", which means, liberals don't bother with things that don't matter.
now, if you're a trans girl shitting in a public toilet, that doesn't matter because it doesn't really change anything. that is why liberalism says "ok, it shouldn't be forbidden, so by default it's allowed" while anti-liberalists claim "i don't see why these people are doing this, therefore they are faking it (being trans) and also it should be a crime until proven innocent".
American use of the term "liberal" centers around purely social aspects - all people have the same rights under the law, so as long as you're not harming anyone else you should be allowed to do whatever you want. Gay, trans, sexually attracted to trains, don't care, you do you.
European use of the term tends to imply economic liberalism, a la Laissez-faire capitalism.
Thus, American liberals are moderately left-wing, and European liberals are moderately right-wing.
It's a weird quirk of society that permissive economics and restrictive social norms tend to get bundled together, and restrictive economics together with permissive social norms.
yeah it's weird, thank you for recognizing that as well :D
fuck yeah, invisible, like the ring of power. that's... that's what this is, right?
I'm not sure what you mean, but also my instance's recent update may have may have caused some fuckery (several ancient comments have been sent to the top of my unread list recently, idk what else might have happened).
no im in a group that's not on that list.
I'm not going to pretend that it's a comprehensive list, There's tons of views held by relatively small groups that are valid and worth considering, but don't really influence political discussions much, at least not around here anyway.
what's your group?
people who leave your mom's house sulkily after she declines our advances and staying would be awkward.
Yeah in europe liberals are liberals, while in america liberals are liberals but it must not interfere with capitalist interests
Eurocentrism lol