How do these Natalists feel about the African continent?
this post was submitted on 13 Apr 2025
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I mean, the difference is expectation. If you live in a country where you are expecting to get a pension and they rug pull on you last minute obviously you were spending on the basis of that expectation and are now doomed to misery and homelessness in old age due to no fault of their own.
Further, some countries wages and cost of living make retiring nearly impossible, child or no. But I guess that's a separate concern.
The primary reason I don't have a kid might be because of my ideology, but even if I was a pro-natalist I'd not dare have a kid unless I wanted drop into poverty. The US doesn't give a fuck.
The median net wealth in my country is 250k euros per adult. We spend A LOT on pension. We have an aging population.
More old people, fewer young people.
These people have enough money. They chose not to have kids, that caused them to have more money in the end.
Them getting the exact same pension as my dad, who spent a lot of money on keeping me and my brother alive, while also paying a lot of taxes = unfair.
I don't want to pay for it. Where are their kids that could help me with producing the goods and services needed to support the elderly? They don't exist.
I much prefer to invest in immigrants than the elderly that willingly chose this situation
I mean, your morals here makes no sense to me. You are selectively ignoring some things.
Your father owed you. You did not choose to even exist, he and your mother ripped you into existence without your consent. The bare minimum is to try and pay back such an unpayable debt by providing you a good life.
The older people who choose not to have children don't have that debt burden. They do not owe you or your father anything. They also did not choose to be born and do not deserve to suffer because they chose not to breed and kick the can of our meaningless existence down the road.
That said, those older people still contributed to society in their youth with their labor. Had they not done so your country would be worse or less developed. They labored under the expectation that they'd receive a certain amount of retirement via their pensions.
I'm too autistic for morals if I'm honest.
No kids means no people working while you don't work. Simple as that.
We want to motivate people to have kids. Then depend the pension on having kids.
More kids = higher pension.
My wife is indonesian. Her mom barely has any pension. But she has 3 adult children. My wife pays for her cost of living alongside her 2 sisters.
The old people there who have no kids are... Well, they work or die.
Is it moral? That's not really my concern. Is it sustainable. That's my concern.
The general pension here, where people can save money by not having kids, retire at age 55, enjoy tax paid healthcare. That caused the aging population.
We made a mistake. We should economically reward having kids. Because having kids rewards the economy.
I am also autistic.
And you used the word "unfair" in your previous post so you are not "too autistic" for morals. Or at least you aren't against pretending you have them when they suit your argument.
You are now just embracing "might makes right" now that the elderly childless suckers got their pension's rug pulled because otherwise its too financially inconvenient.
Can you start talking about the economics part of the subject. We're one of the highest taxed countries in the world. Taxes and social transfers are genius to offer a trampoline for social mobility.
Childless pensioned people don't need a trampoline. They just need to slowly end up with no money at the end of their lives. They need basic necessities, but nothing more. If they want more than that then they better have saved up some money.
If I can give my kid a house, outright. Then I can also just afford retirement if I did not have a child.
Why would I need to have a retirement equal to someone else that couldn't put their money in real estate or stoxx 600 europe or gold or whatever just because they had to buy more consumption goods and services for their child?
Parents produce a productive entity. Why shouldn't they be financially rewarded for this?
Please, limit yourself to economics only. I do not care about anything else in this thread.
If we have to pay too much money on oldies that didn't have kids, then we cannot afford to have children. Then the country keeps having an aging population. Vicious cycle.
Economic sustainability is important.
I'm rich enough, this is not about me. This is about the future of the country.