this post was submitted on 22 Apr 2025
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Just so we’re clear - you’re calling for an end to democracy in Germany? You’re asking for the will of the people to be ignored and actually outlawed?
There can be no tolerance against intolerance, it's a paradox.
So according to you, the people who want everyone with the wrong kind of mustache to be deported, who want citizenships revoked, who want to "remove the outmoded political party system", who are already obstructing the judicial system in Thurinigia, who want to defund public media because it's "too woke", who want to gut universities because they are "too woke", who want to fuck up the environment because - guess what - also "woke", and who want to overthrow the constitutional order are not the fascists?
Fwiw, German law explicitly allows the government to ask the constitutional court to check whether a party behaves consistently with constitutional order, and if not, outlawing them based on that. The German constitution includes some learnings from WWII: This includes a paragraphs on non-discrimination, on the individual right to asylum, on outlawing parties that threaten to overthrow the constitutional order.
Did you just delete my comment and reply to it so no one can see what I actually said, while completely fabricating the message of what I said? Lol
I had multiple reports on the comment, you know, you called people here "nazis". I don't know in what sense you feel mischaracterized though. There is no direct or indirect quote from you in my comment.
The question still stands though: We have a group of people that exhibits a bunch of characteristics of nazis (see above). And you say that the people who don't like them are the nazis.
I’m the one being called a nazi repeatedly! Lol
Also your post literally starts with
And then goes on to say a bunch of stuff that I DID NOT SAY NOR EVEN HINT AT - and then you say there was no mischaracterization? No “indirect quote”?
You literally made up things and said that it was “according to me”!
I was giving context on what Afd wants, and then asking, if you really think they are the good guys here. That's not a mischaracterization of your words.
The AfD wants people with the “wrong kind of moustache” deported? Source?
Note I have NEVER said that the AfD are “the good guys”. I’m defending democracy. If people want to vote for a party that wants to rid their universities of racist DEI policies, wants to rid social media of censorship of one side of all political debates, etc then they should be able to.
I would say the same for anyone that dares to say that any “woke left” parties should be removed from any elections. That’s not democracy. You don’t just remove parties from there because you don’t like them. That’s authoritarian fascism.
Don't overinterpret my tongue-in-cheek wording there. Afd is fearmongering about Muslims, Afd wants mass deportation of foreigners, Afd wants an end to to the right to asylum, and Afd wants people with multiple citizenships to give up their German citizenship so they can be deported. And given that they are the German party who got support from Elmo this past election, none of this should be a surprise.
Please look at the US here—the urges of these parties are all very similar anyway. Research grants for anything containing such evil, woke words like "woman" or "female" were cancelled. The USDA is no longer allowed to communicate about "microplastics". NOAA is deleting climate-change research data.
Silencing minorities and women, or in your words, "ridding unis of racist DEI policies", is just part of this attack. There is also a coordinated attack on accurate recording of reality.
No doubt, it's certainly possible that some DEI don't work well — in which case you bring data and improve them. But for what it's worth, there is very little in terms of DEI policies in German universities, especially compared to the US.
Simply having a majority rule while squashing any minorities is not a democracy, at least not one in the sense that any of us
So you're saying that people should be allowed to lie and mislead and sow unwarranted fear of minorities? How is that making society better?
Those damn "woke" values, or as we used to call them traditionally: "human rights", are the reason we have semi-functional democracies in the first place.
So how then are you suggesting to prevent self-coups? I.e. the kinda thing that Hitler did historically, Orban/Trump/Erdogan do now.
You’re misrepresenting their policies.
https://www.afd.de/wp-content/uploads/2017/04/2017-04-12_afd-grundsatzprogramm-englisch_web.pdf
Show me in there which policies you’re referring to please?
By mass deportation of foreigners do you mean illegal immigrants?
It seems like you’re fear mongering against the AfD based on things you think they might do simply because you believe they’re the second coming of the Nazis.
And again so you don’t take this the wrong way - if people in here were arguing for a “progressive” party to be taken off the ballot I’d be arguing against that and saying that they’re the ones being authoritarian fascists.
I am not. Their election program is misrepresenting their worldview to a degree. This is a legal strategy to avoid being too bannable by courts, nothing more. But look at quotes from influential people like Björn Höcke, Max Krah, Rene Aust, Lena Kotre or ...
In their words:
"We have to proceed very peacefully and deliberately, adapt if necessary and butter up the opponent, but when we're finally ready, we'll put them all up against the wall. (...) Dig a pit, get everyone in and put slaked lime on top."
Almost anyone who wants to claim asylum in Germany, needs to cross the border unlawfully, in their world view that makes people "illegal". The term is used to discredit people whether they ultimately gain asylum or a protection status or not.
So their policy documents etc are lies? Based on what? Verifiable proof would be great. What is being misrepresented in there exactly?
Can you provide some of these quotes that go against their policies and confirm what you’re saying they want to do?
Ok so you do mean illegal immigrants. Can someone apply for asylum in Germany without illegally entering the country? A quick google shows that that is what the AfD are proposing - asylum seekers apply before entering the country. Germany isn’t an island so that shouldn’t be too difficult, and seems reasonable. What is the issue with only people who are granted asylum being allowed in? Believe it or not, letting everyone in and then choosing who to deport leads to large number of people who are not granted asylum just staying illegally, as the current situation in the USA shows. They try to deport illegals who have lived there for 13+ years without even attempting to get asylum, and everyone blows up at them saying they should just leave them alone.
If someone wants to rent my property I don’t let them stay in it while I process their application.
I am not the one you are asking, but personally, in my honest opinion: An "emergency government", lets say with a 20 year term, removing far right parties, doing the necessary changes to massively reduce our climate impact and prepare for the ineviteable fallout from climate change and doing other reforms wouldn't be THAT bad of an idea...
It absolutely would be a horrible idea lol. wtf are you talking about?!
You’re asking for a dictatorship as long as it’s one that says they’ll do what you want. If you make rules allowing for a political party to remove any competitors and install themselves in power for as long as they want, how could it possibly go wrong?. Jesus Christ.
So would you be ok with trump declaring an emergency government for himself for the next 20 years and removing all far left policies and making sure no left of centre parties can ever take control?
No, what i am dalking about is: We WILL see a rise of an authoritarian party in germany in the near future, as we see with many countries worldwide at the moment. And i say: IF we are already doomed to have an authoritarian / fascist regime, i prefer it to be on the ecofascist side. And if there will be an opportunity for such an regime, well, i WILL support it.
I don’t think you know what authoritarianism actually is.
What countries are we seeing a rise in authoritarianism in currently, with examples of their authoritarian policies?
I have relatives in China and Vietnam and lived in both places for extended periods of time... well, let's just say i have a rough estimate...
Ok so those examples then?
Yeah, "emergency powers" have never caused any problems in the past ....
What else can you do when > 50% of the population is unwilling to help solving the single most dangerous problem in human history?
See here is where your issues begin. You’re saying that what the majority want is wrong. You’ve decided that you know what is factually correct, you’re smarter than them all, and that the majority should not get a say.
You want fascism. You want authoritarianism. You think that you and your opinions are non debatable correct, and want them dictated to everyone.
Yup, can not deny that
At least you’re honest I guess.
Not sure, but installing an unelected goverment and abolishing elections for 20 years is literally fighting fascism with fascism, so let's not do that.
It’s not even fighting fascism with fascism, it’s just straight up wanting fascism as long as it’s his “team” in control.
I am a bit fatalistic and perhaps a bit on the doomer side, but i am pretty sure we will get fascism one way or the other soon... and if this is ineviteable, i am very much in favour of installing ecofascism instead of other forms.
OK so at least you admit that you just want fascism where the party you like is in control.