New Communities
A place to post new communities all over Lemmy for discovery and promotion.
Rules
The rules for behavior are a straight carry over of Mastodon.World's rules. You can click the link but we've reposted them here in brief, as a guideline. We will continue to use the Mastodon.World rules as the master list. Over all, be nice to each other and remember this isn't a community built around debate. For the rules about formatting your posts, scroll down to number 2.
1. Follow the rules of Mastodon.world, which can be found here.
A. Provide an inclusive and supportive environment. This means if it isn't rulebreaking and we can't be supportive to them then we probably shouldn't engage.
B. No illegal content.
C. Use content warnings where appropriate. This means mark your submissions NSFW if need be.
D. No uncivil behavior. This includes, but is not limited to: Name Calling; Bullying; Trolling; Disruptive Commenting; or Personal Criticisms.
E. No Harrassment. As an example in relation to Transgender people this includes, deadnaming, misgendering, and promotion of conversion therapy. Similarly Misogyny, Misandry, and Racism are also banned here.
2. Include a community or instance title and description in your post title. - A following example of this would be New Communities - A place to post new communities or instances all over Lemmy for discovery and promotion.
3. Follow the formatting. - The formatting as included below is important for people getting universal links across Lemmy as easily as possible.
Formatting
Please include this following format in your post:
[link text](/c/community@instance.com)
This provides a link that should work across instances, but in some cases it won't
You should also include either:
or instance.com/c/community
FAQ:
Q: Why do I get a 404?
A: At least one user in an instance needs to search for a community before it gets fetched. Searching for the community will bring it into the instance and it will fetch a few of the most recent posts without comments. If a user is subscribed to a community, then all of the future posts and interactions are now in-sync.
Q: When I try to create a post, the circle just spins forever. Why is that?
A: This is a current known issue with large communities. Sometimes it does get posted, but just continues spinning, but sometimes it doesn't get posted and continues spinning. If it doesn't actually get posted, the best thing to do is try later. However, only some people seem to be having this problem at the moment.
Image Attribution:
Fahmi, CC BY 4.0 https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/4.0, via Wikimedia Commons>>
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Ah, so it's the "no, actually I am a Christian, despite not following any of the rules. I just make up my own".
And you don't see why ideology like that is mocked in some very secular countries?
If you claim to be Christian, but then take literally everything to mean whatever you want it to mean, except when it's something you don't like (when religious people protest it's always "It's not in the Bible!" = "it's against Christian values which is the term we're just calling our feelings but here's a clip from the book we don't believe in"), then why are you calling yourself a Christian to begin with?
The answer is because you're afraid of denouncing Christianity and organized monotheism as the bullshit they so very clearly are.
What are these "Christian values" of yours then? Oh the very core or Jesus' teachings, which is the very core of pretty much any even remotely functional ideology, the golden rule; do unto others as you'd have done to yourself.
It's not in any ways inherently Christian. Judaism, Confucianism, Islam, Buddhism and various others all have it.
So if that's all you're taking from Christianity and nothing that's unique to Christianity, then why call your values Christian? Because you dislike explaining yourself to annoying older relatives, that's why.
But if you can come out as trans, then surely awkward conversations with conservatives are already on the books, so why not go all in and actually take the smart stance in religion as well.
I'm not an atheist, by the way. I used to be. Just like I used to be Christian. First I grew out of Christianity, and then I grew out of atheism. So I don't know what you think I'm "preaching"?
Notice I did not say "I am a Christian", but "accepting of Christian values". If you can not understand this difference, I am not sure how much I can help.
All your rant after that is built out of a strawman, so there is no point in arguing further.
Please do elaborate on what you mean.
How else would I know? What you're saying seems to have literally nothing to do with Christianity.
You can't state what said values are, nor do you say whether your "acceptance" of them means you try to follow them or if you believe in them?
The fact you can't really find those answers should be a hint to the amount of indoctrination around organised religion, for the reasons I've explained. I had it when I was around 18, one night at the night club, we were outside for a smoke, and this ~10 years older guy just enquires — in somewhat good faith — why I wear the cross around my neck. It was a golden cross and I got it as a confirmation gift at 15.
But the question stuck with me, and I ended up taking it off. I don't remember whether on the spot or months later.
But the facts are that if people genuinely just go with whatever we think is moral at the time, then why on Earth would anyone claim to found their moral ideology on a book they have to literally mostly ignore?
It doesn't make sense.
Now if you'd just asked "do you think you can be accepting of people who act according to the golden rule", then ofc the answer is "well yes, there's zero reason why you wouldn't".
Pretty much the only reason you're asking this is because you know that "Christian values" can refer to conservative transphobic values as well. I'm sure the ones you're asking for aren't, but you're aware it's a possible meaning of the word.
So please, elaborate. I can't read your thoughts, so I can't actually know what you mean unless you explain what you mean by "Christian values"
A very short description would be to look at the Bible not as prescriptive rulebook which we should be using to measure ourselves against, but as a descriptive collection of stories that can help us make sense of human nature and understand that all these "contradictions" are not meant to be solved, but manifestations of our fallibility.
E.g, I see the story of Babel and I don't think "that's why we have different languages in the world" or "if you try to reach God by other means than salvation, He will punish you" but simply "technological progress and science alone are not enough to bring us closer to some utopia (closer to God)". I think of Kosher diets not as "if you eat pork you are a bad person and deserve eternal damnation", but "at that time and historical contexts, pork meat was full of deadly pathogens, so it would be wise to avoid it".
This is just scratching the surface and it would take a bit more time than I have now, but I will try my best to answer you later.
More ignoring and crying how "you're not supposed to take it seriously, but actually we tell everyone that taking it seriously is the 1. tenet of Christianity and that we do take it seriously, but NONE OF US EVEN ACTUALLY READ IT LOL"
Read the fucking thing and if you're not a coward, you'll stop calling yourself a Christian.
No pls don't attempt to defend it before you actually fucking read the Bible.
Which part of I don't care about whether I fit or not into your definition of "being a Christian" you didn't get?
"Taking it seriously" does not imply "being forced to accept that everything must be taken literally even when stretched to its extreme logical conclusions".
Who cares.
I'm pointing out that any definition includes believing in the Bible, as it's a core tenet in Christianity.
I'm not here to tell you what to believe. I'm just saying my personal belief is that anyone claiming to be Christian (other monotheist) while not even having read the scripture is a hypocrite who's only doing it out of social pressure.
"Believing in the Bible" does not imply "being forced to accept that everything must be taken literally even when stretched to its extreme logical conclusions".
To be accepted into the Church, you need to accept Jesus and renounce your sins. No one was asked to read the whole Bible and accept it as some Terms and Conditions.
And I'm saying that arguing over the validity of "claims to be Christian" is irrelevant to anyone but fundamentalists.
Social pressure from which side? Taking this thread as a sample, it seems that the only ones that care about "claims of being Christian" are the extremists.
This is what I meant with the part about how you could change your religion in the conversation to be literally whatever and the conversation would still be exactly the same. So clearly you don't even know the tenets or sacraments or anything about Christianity, so why would you identify as one?
We don't know each other in any social context. Me using logic here is not "social pressure". Your grandma being pissed at you if you had to point to her what a whackadoodle you need to be to profess belief in the Bible is social pressure.
Did I mock my grandma for her religion or criticise Christianity to her? Of course fucking not, I loved her. But this is a literal thread asking about religion, and I'm pointing out the hypocrisy, which I think isn't wrong for this thread.
I'm asking pretty simple questions and not saying what people should do or believe in.
Really? As an exercise, imagine you are a gay man and you went to talk about it with a priest. Now imagine the same gay man going to talk about it with an Imam. How do you think these conversations would go?
Take your best shot, give both of them the most charitable/noble representation of their respective values. Do you really think that we would get the same outcomes?
Both would work quite well in Finland.
In Iran or the US, theocracies, they wouldn't work either.
You know that monotheism is exclusive and hates differences. Yet you're too fucking scared to call them out on what they are, because the Mary-Sues and Josephs at your local bible-camp wouldn't like it.
Monotheism is absolute cancer which hates everything different.
Anyone who's read basics of history and theology knows that
Back in polytheistic societies like Norway and Greece etc, people were far more progressive than comparative monotheist societies.
Yet you defending Christianity. It's ridiculous. You don't know anything and you don't follow any tenets. So you don't actually believe in the 10 commandments. Who the fuck does?
Yet you're too scared to call it the BS it is. You can still enjoy community without claiming to be a Christian. Perhaps in America you can't..?
I'm born and raised in Brazil. Lived in the US from 2008 to 2013. Now I'm living in Germany - more specifically, in Berlin.
In the US, I had some family and friends. In Germany I was all on my own, so I've tried getting integrated. I went out to meet different people. I wasn't just stuck in my room all day long. The friends that I did do turned out to be invariably Italians, Polish, Israelis, Spaniards. The best I could say about the people from Nordic backgrounds were "they are my acquaintance". Dating in Berlin was weird - much similar to New York - where I'd never know if I was just getting myself into some mindless hook-up or a detailed plan establishing the contract terms of the relationship.
I was in 3 years already in Berlin and I was seriously considering moving out, when I've met a (Greek) woman who I am so very lucky to be able to call "my wife". She had moved to Berlin just one year before me, and though she had a much larger social circle than mine, they were also mostly of other Greeks. When we started dating, her group of friends didn't see me as an attachment to her friend. They took me in as part of the group. I've became friends with them as well, we would go play ball or hang out even if my then-girlfriend couldn't make that one night.
All of this to say: you are getting at this backwards. I'm not saying that I went to the religion to get "accepted" by peers. What I am saying is that even when I was surrounded by people, they were pretty much all of them completely atomized individuals. This feeling only changed when I found myself closer to people with other cultures who still have a higher attachment to their cultural roots.
I don't care for your personal history, it had absolutely nothing to do with Christianity, which is the topic of the thread.
Monotheism is bad and religious people, monotheists especially, are usually dragged into progressive values despite their resistance to them.
It's beyond insane how much of the world you're having to ignore just to keep identifying as a Christian despite not believing in single tenet of the religion.
So I remind you of the argument I said before; it genuinely wouldn't make any rhetorical difference what religion you changed into this conversation for Christianity. You ask whether Christianity is compatible with being trans, but then you refuse to say what notion of being Christian is.
So I'm to just take it that you just like to think your Christian, despite deriving all your personal moral from the world, like people do?
You can't name what these "Christian values" are that you're asking about. Yet you insist that you have them.
Wtf?
I didn't say any such thing. I asked (someone else, a "self-professed" Christian, not you!) the opposite of that: I asked what was so bad about having a community of people who are trying to reconcile their life choices with their Christian faith.
The other guy went on to say "they are using the flag! The flag is a sign of people who do not repent, and that is sin". Okay, I think this answer is stupid and left at that.
You on the other hand got on a little a soapbox to expose yourself as the utmost authority about all and any religion. Congrats! Do you want a cookie before or after I block you and go on with my day?
Alright, sure, "the topic of this thread, which you're defending, is", does that make you feel better, and can you now you start answering, or is just that you're arguing in such bad faith you have zero intention of answering ANYTHING?
"Soapbox".
Again, I'm not an atheist, buddy. I've simply asked very simple questions, like "please elaborate on what you think 'Christian values' means" which you keep avoiding, because you can't define it. Because it's all hypocrisy and not a genuinely held belief. Which just proves what utter bullshit it is.
Monotheism is cancer, yet you keep defending it.
edit oh and why would I give two fucks about who you block?
You don't have to be an Atheist to want a soapbox. All it takes is an insufferable know-it-all who thinks that repeating nonsensical slogans makes for a compelling argument.
Enjoy your evening.
Words have meanings. What is it you think I'm "soapboxing" here? By that logic, you could just dismiss literally anything online. "You just want a soapbox, so I'm not gonna answer your EXTREMELY VALID QUESTIONS THAT YOU GAVE AS AN ANSWER TO A POST ON A FORUM.
Alright, "buddy", be a hypocrite. I do care for the world, because hypocrites make the world suffer, but I don't care about you personally. I just care that your personal ego and fears are in the way of a good world we could have.
You're defending a view... without being able to defend it in any way or without answering any of the questions put to you. The topic of this thread is "is being Christian compatible with being trans", but you refuse to talk about it.
And if you say you have a belief system, but then that belief system doesn't have any tenets, any scripture, and the scripture it has means nothing or that you actually haven't even read the scripture that you claim to believe in "non-literally", you don't actually have a belief system.
Jesus, you really don't know jack shit of the religion you claim to believe in. Yes, there very much is a "read thr while Bible and confirm your Faith.
It's literally called a confirmation.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confirmation
Now the practice in the modern world isn't as common, because it's easier to just default to "you accepted the T&C with your Baptism", but it is still a literal SACRAMENT in the religion. (I don't believe you could list other sacraments, or even the meaning of the word.)
I have had a confirmation. You literally spend a week reading the Bible, after which you get confirmed. No, you can't fail, it's not a test, but it does show you how ridiculous the Bible is and it's just a fun thing for teenagers to do and you get loads of money as presents from family members.
You don't seem to know anything about Christianity, you don't seem to have any rules set by it, you don't seem to be able to say you believe in any specific bit in it, yet you claim that you definitely are.
And I'm just asking WHY?
You could just as well claim you're some other religion, like Buddhism, and then just pretend your beliefs come from that. As of now in this conversation, changing your religion wouldn't change the conversation a single bit. That's how little Christianity matters to you, but you since there's social pressure, you won't accept any of this.
Okay. I'll grant you that. I don't particularly care about the "belief system". I don't particularly care about doctrine. I don't believe that the Earth is 6000 years old and I don't live my life thinking of where I will end up once I'm gone. If this is your only idea of "being Christian", then I'm certainly not it.
Because of the community that comes with it. Because of the culture that is developed around it. Because it is the foundation of the Western World. Because most of the people/cultures that I've seen trying to reject those values have lost themselves to something worse. Because other religions seems to treat this world as a mere passage way, and Judeo-Christian cultures are also concerned about working to leave this place better than what was found.
Dude I've literally shown you how much more I know and understand about Christianity than you do. You know that you didn't know what a confirmation is, much less being able to name ALL the sacrament. Hell, you probably even wouldn't be able to define the word without googling.
I can list all the sacrament, because I've studied the Bible and Christianity, as a former Christian who was brought up in Christianity.
But you don't even admit to your ignorance about your own faith, when said ignorance is literally the point of this conversation.
Yeah, just like I said, hypocritical believers who are just too scared to admit the ONLY REASON they're identifying as Christians is LITERALLY that others wouldn't accept them not identifying as a Christian.
That's exactly my point.
However in more secular countries, you can. You don't need to be a part of the church to engage in social activities and people don't socially hang you out to dry if you acknowledge what ridiculous contradictory bullshit the Bible is.
WRONG. Propaganda, bullshit and utterly fucking wrong.
Monotheism is a destructive and hateful. It's indoctrination, and make people worse than they would be without monotheism. Without monotheism, we would already have our gay luxury space communism.
I know more about Christianity than you do, you're just scared to accept Criticism_of_monotheism.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism_of_monotheism
Was this a competition? I wasn't aware. Congrats, you won!
So now you are going to be making two arguments:
I added this comment as an edit to the earlier reply but it was so much later O thought yo write this as a specific comment as well. Edit dammit, sorry I forgot to add the part I meant to write about how being trans and Christian on a practical level is completely different and mostly up to the people in any given local religious community. ideologically it doesn't fit but if you're trans and are asking whether other Christians can accept you? Yes, ofc they can. Christians are great at hypocrisy.
No, it's not a competition, but you implied that because you identify as a Christian and I no longer do, that you're in some sort of position of authority over it. ("If that's your only idea of Christianity" you said after tossing out some wild strawman I had nothing to do with.)
Oh you're making demands of my belief system, when this thread is about whether Christianity is compatible with being trans? No Christianity, a dogmatic religion with Old Testament in its scripture is not compatible with being trans on an ideological level.
One is a hateful ideology that hates anything different. And one is just existing as a trans person. There's no "trans ideology" that is being tested against it, but you're asking as if there were, since the ideology that Christianity has to fight is progressiveness; "being woke", as the kids say. The very thing that Star Trek enshrines.
What's atheists have to do with this? I'm not an atheist, as I've told you.
And no, I won't be hopping to your demands. You've answered none of my questions or explained your views even when I asked nicely. You simply ignore facts about Christianity, literally, and say "well that's no longer the case" "you don't actually have to believe in this sort of thing".
You made a point about a gay man going to an imam. Don't you think that with how large Muslim society is globally that there's literally millions of LGTBQ+ youths who are battling against their even more dogmatic religion? Don't you think it'd be kind of the same thing for a man to be gay and still defend Islam, as if you are (I'm not assuming anything and hopefully haven't at any point) trans and defend Christianity?
Why is it different to be a gay man and defend Islam, than being trans and defending Christianity?
What "status" are you talking about? You do know why the nowadays politically incorrect phrase "dark ages" existed, right? Europe had the dark ages while Asia was bloomimg. First universities were Islamic.
Hell, Christianity got rid of Europe's smartest. And forced it's dogma down everyone's throats for a few thousand years. Christianity came out on top because it was the least accepting and most punishing.
The amount of progressive sociological concepts that Christianity put down in just ancient Norse religion is massive. Greece too.
Do you think a gay man would have had trouble living 2500 years ago in Greece? No. Absolutely none. What about after Christianity took over..?
Edit dammit, sorry I forgot to add the part I meant to write about how being trans and Christian on a practical level is completely different and mostly up to the people in any given local religious community. ideologically it doesn't fit but if you're trans and are asking whether other Christians can accept you? Yes, ofc they can. Christians are great at hypocrisy.
No, no, no... I've been trying like crazy to explain that "what I identify with" is completely irrelevant!
What I am arguing here:
What I've been telling you is that you're wrong.
Name one "Christian value" which you can and should take from Christianity. And that is specific to it. Not like "Christianity teaches us that you shouldn't kill everyone you see on sight" like the golden rule I mentioned earlier.
No.
A Christian value.
Go ahead.
I'll wait.
No, you just keep defending this bullshit and then you wonder why we have to go through wars and shit.
Stand up and call monotheism the cancer it is. There's nothing inherently good in it. Nothing. But there is a lot of inherently bad things, like dogma, and straight up anti-LGBT values.
Oh, no! Not again!
Ok, you can wait.
Deflecting again? Wow. So surprised. You can't answer anything or define anything.
Yet you imagine you're in a "debate"? Thanks for the laughs.
No, I never said I was in a debate. Did I?
If you don't mind me asking: how old are you?
You use words you don't understand? (That's a rhetorical question, I can see you do.)
"Dogma", "sacrament"? It's all Greek to me...
Name one “Christian value” which you can and should take from Christianity. And that is specific to it. Not like “Christianity teaches us that you shouldn’t kill everyone you see on sight” like the golden rule I mentioned earlier.
No.
A Christian value.
Go ahead.
I’ll wait.
No, you just keep defending this bullshit and then you wonder why we have to go through wars and shit.
Stand up and call monotheism the cancer it is. There’s nothing inherently good in it. Nothing. But there is a lot of inherently bad things, like dogma, and straight up anti-LGBT values.
Things evolve, necessarily. Anyone trying to insist things not evolve is gonna have a hard life.
So you're arguing that Christianity has evolved out of it's core tenets?
I'm sorry, but monotheism is dogmatic. Another word that's sure to ring a bell, but you seem to have missed the meaning of it.
Christianity is a dogmatic religion. Google the sentence if it doesn't make sense otherwise. Or more specifically, it contain dogma.
Excellent movie btw, for Christians or non-Christians, all alike. Full movie on YouTube completely for free and good quality https://youtu.be/XlIORIds1xc
No I'm saying the council messed it up and we can do better. It was a great movie.
What council, messed what up?