Cross-posted from "TRUE communism!" by @Muaddib@sopuli.xyz in !politicalmemes@lemmy.world
this post was submitted on 02 Jul 2025
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Always good to fight other leftists as fascism closes its grip on the imperial core. Great strategy.
(Posts like this aren't allowed on Hexbear, and for good reason. What value is there in shitstirring like this? Why be needlessly antagonistic? I really don't get it.)
... You don't get it?
This is an Anarchist instance.
Anarchists are extremely critical of the concept of 'the State' itself, tend to want to either totally abolish it, or at least strip it down so much or break it apart that it essentially isn't a 'State' any more.
Tankies embrace, and essentially worship the State.
... Also, in basically every single recorded instance of a succesful or attempted leftist revolution in modern human history, tankies ally with anarchists to overthrow the existing State, and then murder all of them after they've established themselves as the new State or proto-State.
One could argue that it seems to be in the material interest of authoritarian statists to extend false allyship to 'fellow leftists', and then betray them as quickly as they abandon their ideal of a 'classless society' and begin to assert themselves as the new ruling class.
There's a 101 level answer for your 'why so antagonistic' question.
Tankies historically cry 'Unity! Unity!' and do exactly what you are doing, trying to shame those who are skeptical... and then the rhetoric flips on a dime and the cry switches to 'Purity! Faith!'
...
Also worth noting is your framing of this as antagonistic in the first place.
I guess you find the evidence of history thus far to largely be antagonistic to your worldview?
I don't know, I wouldn't want to put words in your mouth, but that is my assumption.
I could be wrong though.
The way you liberals need to define ideologies the US government taught you to hate as "religions" is pretty interesting to me.
I've studied economics and poli sci academically, have degrees in both, did my own independent research, came to the conclusion that the anarchist perspective is ultimately the most useful approach to analyze and critique... all societies, throughout all history, with the least ideological blindspots, with the most at least broadly accurate predictive power.
But sure, ok, I am one of the liberals whom I frequently argued against and critqued, ok.
Anyways, do you have an actual retort, or just a form of ideologically flavored ad hominem?
-yawn-
My wife also has advanced degrees in economics, she's a senior economist professionally and has also studied world history indepth. She disagrees with your assessment and thinks a vanguard and a socialist state are necessary intermediaries to get any kind of lasting libertarian anarchism.
I could easily find 100+ economists with better credentials who disagree with both you and my wife so what's the point of jerking off your qualifications? If you have something persuasive to say just say it; vaguely telling us why you're qualified is weak as hell. Why don't you post your resume or link to any of the books you've published if you're such an expert?
Your wife sounds like she'd be potentially interesting to talk to then, genuinely.
But uh, I wasn't 'flashing my credentials' to assert authority by way of the number of fancy pieces of paper I have.
I was responding to the charge of having been 'brainwashed' by the US government, and mentioned my academic pursuits to hopefully be able to indicate that I have spent an inordinate and uncommon amount of time and effort attempting to do my own research and learn more.
...
I don't have anything that I think would be persuasive to say, in general, to an ML Vanguardist.
Mostly because they tend to be very, very ideologically inflexible.
Again, I was responding to a single general concept with that section of what I wrote:
The idea that an ML/Tankie does not understand why Anarchists are skeptical of left-unity.
Apparently my error was to assume that the person I was responding to was... being serious, actually expressing that idea in good faith, earnestly.
...
I will not be posting my resume or any PII as I value my privacy here on lemmy.
...
You're so very hostile and demanding of people you claim are or should be your allies...
...almost as if we have a fundamentally, radically distinct approach to basic human to human communication, to say nothing of how to grow a mass political movement.
So just to be clear, you're the only free thinker and everyone who doesn't agree with you is a mindless sheep blindly following their ideology as a religion?
Am I the only free thinker?
No, of course not?
Do all tankie/MLs engage in what could otherwise be an actually productive and insightful conversation with the absolutely most badfaith and toxic rhetoric that is humanly possible, immedeately, right out of the gate, like rabid cult members defending their beliefs?
In my experience, not 100% of the time, but 95% of the time, yes.
So I guess thanks to you that 95% is getting closer to rounding over to 96%.
You got anything other than an ad hom?
In constantly calling all your interlocutors cultists, you're making it pretty hard to see anyone else as the bad faith adhom abusers here
Pot calling the kettle black, holy shit that's hilarious.
"not everyone, just almost everyone" isn't the gotcha you think it is.
Ridiculous statement for someone who incessantly calls the most predominant socialist tendency on earth a "religion."
Edit: also lmao poli sci and economics degree
"Excuse me, the only real socialists are people with professional level liberal ideological education"
You claimed I was brainwashed by the government, I told you I wasn't.
Your response is 'Ridiculous!' and then a strawman.
... this is evidently your strategy for fostering left-unity, to just attempt to rhetorically insult me until I submit to your way of thinking?
You 'argue' like a power tripping narcissist sociopath, it is actually funny to me that you seemingly lack awareness of how vindictive and manipulative you come across.
I guess the only good revolution is the one that is openly antagonistic to tbose whom it claims to represent, speak for, advocate for with unity.
I'm not trying to foster left unity with you, because frankly to consider you an anarchist would be such rank anti-anarchist sectarianism that Hexbear mods would be correct to permaban me. You're a liberal.
Btw, I think that accusing anarcho-communists of having an ideology that inevitably leads to ecocide is pretty sectarian also (or again, maybe not sectarian. It's not sectarian for a liberal [you] to be anti-anarchist, just shitty), and you haven't engaged with this point but you're posting ziq's articles and this is one of their states positions so that's something you need to deal with for yourself.
You called Marxism a religion before my comment, which was about your initial ad hominem comparison to religion, and frankly suggesting that the ideologies that you are opposed to are the ones the US government wants you to oppose is an objective fact.
LMAO holy shit what a toolbag