this post was submitted on 04 Jul 2025
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Thought this was an insightful take, makes me want to read more bell hooks 😁

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[–] ZDL@lazysoci.al 14 points 3 days ago (10 children)

We don't add that same [intersectional] nuance.

Because if we get it wrong WE GET HURT. WE DIE.

Is it fair? No. No it isn't. But it's real. And if you can't understand that I value my life more than your feelings, men, you're not an ally.

This isn't about "all men" or even "most men". Most men are great! Really! I have had many close relationships (physical or otherwise) with men!

But enough men are dangerous predators that all men have to be treated, at least initially, with suspicion.

The Correct ChoiceA beautiful woman plays with her bear friend in a mud hole.  NOT AI.

[–] foxglove@lazysoci.al 5 points 3 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago) (5 children)

tbf the question just doesn't lend itself to intersectional thinking, it assumes the racist "default" which of course for most people is going to mean the man is white, cis, straight, able-bodied, Western, English-speaking, etc. And honestly if the question incorporated intersectional identity, it would just further expose biases we experience about those "other" identities, for many:

  • ableism implies the differently abled are weaker and thus safer and less masculine
  • Blackness is perceived as hyper-masculine and dangerous
  • being a trans man would invalidate their gender as a man for many and be assumed to be safer
  • being a gay man would likewise be perceived as safer as the assumption is that men's predatory nature is in part sexual (which is not entirely wrong, since most of the violence women experience from men are perpetuated by their sexual partners)

If I went camping, the probability of being killed by a man is much, much higher than the probability a bear comes into my camp and kills me, simply by the numbers. And for added distress, a man is also much more likely to rape me before he kills me, whereas a bear is more likely to just maul me defensively, or less likely, to see me as food and attempt to eat me. Bears don't tend to go around killing for fun.

Ironically the video didn't mention the way differences about the bear would change the question - I have spent time around black bears and would feel very different about being around them than a grizzly bear. Even so, there have been times when I've been near a black bear that I have been so terrified out of my skin that I would have certainly preferred to be near a man in that moment instead. (Though the exact opposite happens far more frequently: that women experience moments with men when they would wish to be around a bear instead.)

Either way, both probabilities are extremely low, meanwhile violence against women by men they know is very common. This last fact explains the psychology - the reality is that a very large percent of women (one in three) have been victimized by men they know, which of course results in a generalized fear of men.

It's rational fear, rooted in real violence, but the video's point is not to gaslight women into overlooking that fear because of intersectionality, lol. They're just pointing out the way we don't even think about that. If I'm not wrong the point of the video is that feminism includes liberating men from patriarchy since it victimizes them as well.

Men being labeled as "predators" is one of those ways they are unfairly treated under a patriarchal system, it alienates them from women who fear them. Tolerance of violence against women create a situation of distrust and fear, but it's a minority of men who perpetuate the violence that creates this situation.

The man-bear question should lead people to recognize the problem is patriarchy, and that both men and women benefit from dealing with this problem.

[–] Taleya@aussie.zone 4 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago) (2 children)

Intersectionality goes beyond US paradigms though. As an Aussie i'm not more scared of black men than white (frankly the most terrifying male archetype to me is a bored rich white teen, they run in packs and tend to face little to no consequences), nor do i ascribe hypersexuallity - but at the same time there's our own biases regarding national identities to deal with.

[–] ZDL@lazysoci.al 3 points 2 days ago (1 children)

When talking "Internet left" and "Internet intersectionality" you're pretty much talking "American left/intersectionality". I've given up on even trying to point out that the rest of the world exists, because even the "intersectional" American so-called left either denies the existence of Toms and Dees, say, or tries to cram them into their own paradigm of "butch" and "lipstick". Non-Americans just have to try to find the underlying concept and ignore the examples provided.

[–] foxglove@lazysoci.al 2 points 2 days ago

yeah, the cultural hegemony is real, and it's made worse by the way the U.S. has had such cultural influence on the rest of the world ... it makes it seem for the American that the whole world is like the U.S.

[–] foxglove@lazysoci.al 3 points 2 days ago

yes, I didn't mean to imply cultural values are absolute and static 😅 Still, it's a good call-out, thank you!

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