this post was submitted on 22 Sep 2023
12 points (55.8% liked)

Technology

34387 readers
232 users here now

This is the official technology community of Lemmy.ml for all news related to creation and use of technology, and to facilitate civil, meaningful discussion around it.


Ask in DM before posting product reviews or ads. All such posts otherwise are subject to removal.


Rules:

1: All Lemmy rules apply

2: Do not post low effort posts

3: NEVER post naziped*gore stuff

4: Always post article URLs or their archived version URLs as sources, NOT screenshots. Help the blind users.

5: personal rants of Big Tech CEOs like Elon Musk are unwelcome (does not include posts about their companies affecting wide range of people)

6: no advertisement posts unless verified as legitimate and non-exploitative/non-consumerist

7: crypto related posts, unless essential, are disallowed

founded 5 years ago
MODERATORS
 

tr:dr; he says "x86 took over the server market" because it was the same architecture developers in companies had on their machines thus it made it very easy to develop applications on their machines to then ship to the servers.

Now this, among others he made, are very good points on how and why it is hard for ARM to get mainstream on the datacenter, however I also feel like he kind lost touch with reality on this one...

He's comparing two very different situations, more specifically eras. Developers aren't so tied anymore like they used to be to the underlaying hardware. The software development market evolved from C to very high language languages such as Javascript/Typescript and the majority of stuff developed is done or will be done in those languages thus the CPU architecture becomes irrelevant.

Obviously very big companies such as Google, Microsoft and Amazon are more than happy to pay the little "tax" to ensure Javascript runs fine on ARM than to pay the big bucks they pay for x86..

What are your thoughts?

you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
[–] jet@hackertalks.com 61 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) (3 children)

He has a strong opinion, but he hasn't lost the plot. It's very reasonable to say you need to develop on the architecture you wanted to deploy to. If you want to be efficient, so most companies are going to deploy to architecture they have locally.

But you're taking comments from 2019. Nowadays lots of Mac developers develop directly on arm. So by his own argument, those Mac developers would be more comfortable deploying to an arm-based architecture cuz the running on an arm-based architecture.

So broadly I agree with him, or his past comments from 2019, you're going to need local developer environments, before you're going to get efficient server software

[–] avidamoeba@lemmy.ca 9 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago)

ARM on Mac isn't nearly as helpful for workloads on an ARM server as x86 PC for an x86 server. The differences in hardware behavior between the two x86 parts is small because the platforms are standardized way beyond the instruction set. The ARM server on the other hand has nothing to do with the Mac beyond the instruction set. Something runs great on your Mac because of the on-SoC ridiculously fast RAM. You throw it on an ARM server with completely different ARM CPUs, slotted RAM and a bottleneck shows up.

[–] metallic_z3r0@infosec.pub 6 points 11 months ago

I hope we get there soon with RISC-V.

[–] DeprecatedCompatV2@programming.dev 1 points 11 months ago (3 children)

I hate my M2 Mac because I hate Macs and Docker doesn't always work correctly.

[–] dot20@lemmy.world 2 points 11 months ago (1 children)
[–] DeprecatedCompatV2@programming.dev 2 points 11 months ago

Have job

Get paid to suffer

[–] kornel@programming.dev 1 points 11 months ago (1 children)

If you run an ARM system inside docker, it works much better!

Many pre-baked images may be x86 only. However, thanks to M processors there’s a real demand for more than Raspberry Pi, so this will get better too.

[–] DeprecatedCompatV2@programming.dev 1 points 11 months ago (1 children)

Unfortunately I was trying to build WebRTC, which is supported on Linux only.

[–] kornel@programming.dev 1 points 11 months ago (1 children)

There’s aarch64 version of Linux.

[–] DeprecatedCompatV2@programming.dev 1 points 11 months ago

Not all the dependencies are supported on aarch64 unfortunately.

[–] ikidd@lemmy.world 1 points 11 months ago

I'd be surprised if Docker worked at all on an M2, because it doesn't work worth a shit on an x86 Mac.