Welcome to politcal memes!
These are our rules:
Be civil
Jokes are okay, but don’t intentionally harass or disturb any member of our community. Sexism, racism and bigotry are not allowed. Good faith argumentation only. No posts discouraging people to vote or shaming people for voting.
No misinformation
Don’t post any intentional misinformation. When asked by mods, provide sources for any claims you make.
Posts should be memes
Random pictures do not qualify as memes. Relevance to politics is required.
No bots, spam or self-promotion
Follow instance rules, ask for your bot to be allowed on this community.
Wiki - The paradox of tolerance states that if a society is tolerant without limit, its ability to be tolerant is eventually ceased or destroyed by the intolerant. Karl Popper described it as the seemingly self-contradictory idea that in order to maintain a tolerant society, the society must retain the right to be intolerant of intolerance.
Not one that remains objective over time. In 1820 Atheism, and Homosexuality would be considered harmful; in 1920 Racial equality would have been considered harmful, as would Unionization. Imagine the things we consider harmful today that our descendants in 2120 will consider us barbaric for.
It's in the dictionary. Hasn't changed in a few hundred years.
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/harm
Sodomy was once considered harm. Masturbation was once deemed to be "self abuse". Some people consider vaccination and masks to be harmful. Judaism was seen as harmful by interwar Germans.
The dictionary defines the word; it does not determine whether a particular act can be described by that word. Harm is subjective, and changes.
Yes, congratulations, you figured out what the other poster didn't. Shame you think you're disagreeing with me, but I'll take your unintended agreeance even if you don't have the comprehension to understand why. Nuance, only for the literate.
Ok. With this as context:
Your acknowledgement that "Judaism" was once considered a "harmful idea" would seem to suggest you believe it is "perfectly legitimate to censor Judaism.
How are we not in disagreement?
I'd consider all religion to be built on a number of harmful ideas as they are figments of peoples imagination rather than objective reality and have been used for subjugation and control.
And I'd argue that it is legitimate to censor those.
You act like context and nuance are nothing more than thought experiments.
Ok. Same question, swapping homosexuality in place of judaism.
Then, same question again, but remembering that "evolution" was once considered a harmful idea.
Homosexuality harms people? Got any proof? Seems to me like homosexuality is harmed by religion.
Evolution harms people? Willful ignorance isn't being harmed.
You are developing a philosophical model for people to adopt. That model calls for the censoring of things that people seem to be "harmful".
At times in our history, certain people have, indeed, considered homosexuality to be "harmful".
If these people follow the philosophy you describe, these people should censor homosexuality. Is that your intent? Or is there a slight flaw in the philosophical model you have described?
Here is the definition used. Re-assess your understanding, and be specific. I can't give you a cognizant answer unless we're on the same page.
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/harm
In regards to homosexuality being considered harmful, there's a big difference between people's considerations and objective fact, that nuance is important.
Harm to oneself born of one's own intolerance is no ones issue but their own.
Intolerance is self harm.
Ok. I have re-read your definition again. I can work with this.
A group of people have observed a behavior that I may or may not have mentioned. This group of people has determined this behavior to be harmful. Should they censor it, or not? After you provide me with a definitive yes/no answer, I will tell you what that behavior was.
I don't know why you keep calling this "nuance"; it is not nuance. You are using that word incorrectly.
Is their determination objectively verifiably true or the projection of a feeling?
Does this behaviour harm them because of their own intolerance of this behaviour alone?
The answers to these questions create contextual nuance.
The behavior does impact the group in an objective, verifiable way, and they have concluded that this impact is, indeed, harmful.
That's not what I asked. Two questions, two answers. I agree they believe they are harmed.
I'm going to risk assuming that your silence is due to the understanding that my logic is solid and that both functional and self inflicted harm born of bigotry are logically determinable with adequate contextual nuance.
If this isn't the case, reply with your answers to my two questions and I can continue when I get the chance.
I just wanna point something out. You realize you are the oppressor right? Its not people having open discussions causing genocide, it's people like yourself that think you have the right to oppose yourself over others. How do you expect to enforce these positions?
lmao 🤣 it's gold that Lemmy saves the source of deleted comments. You really let your ego show there 🤣🤣🤣
And you are oppressive, 100%. You would oppress the religious rights of billions of people if only you could. How you would impose this without mass death? How would you be different from Nazis?
That's why we need big brains like you to tell us what to think!! Ohhh if only I wasn't but a lowly peon I might possibly be able to grasp that religious oppression isn't. Yes yes.
Funny how you deflect to calling people stupid rather then admit to the glaring holes in your position, sorry that's not the right word. Sad, it's sad not funny.
Anyways it's been fun measuring dicks, but I got you beat, and it looks like you don't have a response.
✌️ Take care.
I'm not here to tell you how to think, but don't conflate your ignorance for other people's knowledge.
It must suck fighting imaginary enemies. I wish you the best of luck.
🤣 Of course not, I'm not religious.
I'm not telling religious people how to think. Anyone can think how they like. It's how they express themselves that's the issue, but you knew that, right?
You don't think the definition of mental harm has changed over the last few hundred years?
Read the rest of the page, context is included.
The things that cause harm change, the definition of harm is constant, not all harm is equal.
Having read the rest of the thread I would like you to answer @Rivalarrival@infosec.pub 's questions.
@Rivalarrival@infosec.pub, got caught up on two simple questions and lost their composure.
I disagree. He asked a question that gets to the heart of the question, given that the definition of what is "harmful" has changed over the years and will continue to change into the future; does OP support the censorship of the things it would have censored and the things it may censor in the future? It's a valid question and it core to the disagreement.
If OP doesn't care about the dangers of censorship that's fine, but they shouldn't act like you can allow censorship without the problems it has historically and will in the future cause.
The disagreement is that censorship can be good at all. Censorship, even with the best of intentions has always been a net negative for a society. And there's no standard for censorship that can withstand simple historical analysis rigor. Censorship is always a powerful group limiting the speech of the populace.