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Whats with the Lemmygrad hate?
(lemmy.world)
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this post was submitted on 11 Jul 2023
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My neutral take: a lot of people, for various reasons, don't like hardline communists.
Not even Communists, Tankies specifically.
Yup. I’m a leftist, so naturally hold some of the more “extreme” left views. But holy shit tankies will say anything to avoid admitting that communism has been abused throughout history. Lots of “Maybe those genocides and famines weren’t so bad” apologetics.
My favorite take is "Stalin was right wing".
Like how delusional can you get?
"The Khmer Rouge wasn't communist" is another good one.
I mean it wasn't, but tankies sure think it was
Actually, the irony is that a lot of tankies also say that the KM wasn't Marxist, but that Stalinist Russia and Maoist China were.
Quite why, I couldn't tell you.
It’s the human rights abuse and genocide that really light their fire.
They just also happen to be interested in leftist political ideas.
That one is especially funny, but it does expose how meaningless the term is now. Everyone on the left uses "right-wing" as shorthand for "bad," and ditto for the right and left-wing.
I put it this way:
I want to maximize the level of equality in our societies. I want a floor of poverty below which a citizen cannot fall and a ceiling of wealth beyond which a person cannot rise. I do not think the tested and failed ideas of a 19th century philosopher are worth putting more time and human misery into.
We can do better, we SHOULD have learned something in the last 100ish years.
I am a bit uncomfortable with the word tankies. It really applies to a different group from a different time. It was a right wing slur that was used to paint trade unions and vanilla liberals as enemies of the state.
I would like a new word to help us describe the highly online left that was radicalized. Whose hatred of capitalism got so hot that they started to lionize horrifying 20th century communism.
I guess tankies will do, but it’s a really complicated word from a complicated time.
The original "tankies" were British communists who supported Soviet violence against Hungarian and Czechoslovak communists. The revolutionary regimes in those countries were led by their communist parties, but independent of the Soviet Union. So the tankies showed loyalty to Soviet imperial power against communism.
Your knowledge of the history exceeds mine, but I can’t help think your context furthers the point that this term is rather complicated. It still seems like a really strange word to be using in this context. It carries some historical weight that doesn’t quite fit in the modern wheel barrow.
Regarding the broader politics, modern anti-capitalists tend to “no true scotsman” the 20th century horror show. I have changed as I got older and come to accept that 19th thinkers lacked the creativity needed to incentivize collectivism at the state scale and fell back on force of arms. We (the 21st century left) must be more creative or those who suffered and died in that mess died for nothing.
I agree. Some people use the term tankie to call someone out for supporting genocide or denying any wrong doings of any authoritarian regimes with even a tangential relation to communism. Other people use tankie to delegitimize people who support social services and government actually doing something for its citizens. The latter group uses the term to make those they label as tankies appear as if they are extremists akin to the first group which, unfortunately, stifles progress and discussion. In conclusion, real tankies, the term itself, and those who co-opt it to stifle actual progress all suck.
They are the worst kind of communists, they love russia and china but fail to understand neither are even close to being communist they are probably as far as you can get the other way
Exactly. Although there is much debate over what Marx envisioned when he put forward the idea of a Communist society, it certainly didn't involve an authoritarian, single-party dictatorship where The Party oppresses the people.
Tankies are more Stalinist and Maoist apologists than actual communists.
The addled masses don't even comprehend the differences between communism, socialism and dictatorship...