this post was submitted on 14 Nov 2023
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Well I won't be voting for the fascist party.....
Which one? The Democratic Party has been supporting genocide. It's well past time we recognized that the Democratic Party and the Republican Party are both fascist and reject them accordingly.
I get the concept. I do. And I wrestle with the notion myself, as I’m an anarchist (you and I don’t agree on a few things, lemmygrad friend).
But I don’t subscribe to the notion that not voting as a principled abstainer is a righteous act…I don’t think. Because I do agree, of course. The democrats are capitalist, war-mongering shitheels. They aren’t “good” or just or righteous by any stretch of the imagination. They destroy the environment and will kill us if we challenge the status quo of lte stage consumer capitalism. I have no illusions about this.
But doing nothing in the face of a Republican Party that is hellbent on wiping trans people from the face of the earth, strapping us all to the whipping chair until they can establish a Christofascist nightmare in which we are all beaten into straight, white submission is…not a heroic act. Because, yeah, the democrats support Israel, they are neoliberal capitalist pigs. They boost police budgets whenever they can, they take obscene amounts of money from special interests and work for them, not for us. But the republicans do all the same shit PLUS hating trans and gay people and pass laws that make it so they can lock you away for protesting and they are clearly more “business friendly” because they can be open about it while the democrats have to do slightly less because their rhetoric and their base don’t approve like Republican voters do.
My point is, there are two terrible options. Yes, we are in agreement. And yes, electoralism is bullshit, incrementalism will get us nowhere. But hierarchy is bullshit. Capitalism is bullshit. These things will exist until some insanely devastating event upturns the way the world has run for a long time.
Not voting won’t change these realities. VOTING won’t change them. But all the people that are hurt by an emboldened xenophobe and vicious bigot WILL be hurt. Actual, measurable hurt. PLUS the Palestinian people you’re basing your position on will continue to be killed. Because the US supports Israel. Not the democrats or republicans, but the US.
Not voting against a party that is openly using REAL LIFE fascist methods and speech so you can maintain your perceived purity isn’t noble.
We can all hate capitalism. But we’re stuck with it right now. We can all hate electoralism. But we’re stuck with it right now. Capitalism kills way more people than the genocide currently happening in Palestine. But you’re way more involved with it than you would be in electoralism by casting one vote.
These things are truths right now. You’d do a lot more good (or at least contribute A LOT less hurt) by abstaining from capitalism than you would abstaining from electoralism. We can all be principled. But all-or-nothing-ism that is rampant on “the left” (read: in modern people with principles and humanity and half a brain) isn’t noble because it helps. It’s perceived as noble because you can say, “pfft. I didn’t _____.” You’re not helping anymore but yourself.
Engage in praxis. Fight for your beliefs. But when your abstinence will be weaponized by insanely powerful and horrible people, and leveraged against minority groups, your “purity” is nothing but self-aggrandizement.
Not voting against anti-trans Christian fascist bigots is a huge show of privilege.
Amerika as an empire deserves to die. I will not pencil-whip your colonizers or genociders without them giving up said colonialism and genocide first, and verifiably, long-term at that. I will not stand alongside that and tarnish my community's history misleading that way; and I don't care how many people try to couch it in "but what about your (white) countrymen?!"
If they cosign the Democrat Party's genocides, if they back the colonizing invaders, then fuck them. They are emphatically not my 'countrymen', especially not my allies, and can only be seen as weak links that deserve to go with the nation in the same fire.
We may as well be two entirely different nations at this point with how much enmity I see in your party of colonizers.
Lol you really didn’t read what I said, huh?
On Stoke, as soon as you wanted to play the "not voting for the blue genociders is an act of privilege" horseshit like every other aggrieved liberal cracker I've had the misfortune of knowing, I stopped caring what you had to say. You're just another opp to me seein that-- because not a single peckerwood that's ever run the play you're running right now, where you try to act like you're ragging on the Democrat party while still stumping for them has ever been able to sell that shit. That's disingenuous to me, just as disingenuous as the Republicans who go token-fishing to find minorities to weaponize.
Nah, man. I’m just an adult. I have my principles. And casting a single vote, I’m still sure what my principles are. And they don’t align with the Democratic Party.
But while there are two harmful options, one is significantly more harmful to populations of people whose very existence is apparently up for debate, friends of mine who I see struggle every day—also anarchist, but transgender (…who have also decided to give up a little of their pride in their stringent ideals in order to not be made illegal or to keep younger trans kids from suffering the way they did growing up in the 90s/early 2000s), opened my eyes to the urgency of the situation for them.
I didn’t vote for Hillary Clinton. Obama didn’t get my vote either time. But I did vote for joe Biden. I didn’t love it. But I did it. It didn’t take too long, and I continued living my principles. I didn’t burst into flames.
I’ve voted third party most of my life. And I’ve wavered on this as I’ve gone through my life. I make a judgement call when I can. But I started reading anarchist literature young. Like I said, I came of age under late Clinton/bush II. So my radicalization happened early. And my proactivity in my beliefs has come and gone. But my principles have stayed the same. I dunno how old you are, but honestly, I’m assuming you’re kinda young based on the way you speak. I was cooking for FNB and burning American flags and spray painting banks and paint bombing Lockheed Martin longer than you seem to have been alive.
I think of my taking a few minutes to cast a ballot against a genuine fascist movement like harm reduction in drug addiction. I don’t support drug addiction, but I do want to help those at the mercy of the worst of it. Drug addiction is horrible. Our electoralism is horrible. I don’t want to support either. But there is a little I can do to reduce the harm to most vulnerable victims of both.
I’m secure enough in my beliefs and can still be a full-fledged anarchist doing my praxis and casting a vote. My beliefs aren’t so flimsy that I need to PROVE TO EVERYONE IM ABOVE IT. I’ve been there. I can still see the problems inherent in our system while casting a vote. I can still hate capitalism while working and spending money. It’s not the system we want. My beliefs are lived through my praxis and my sense of what I believe. Not by what I DONT do. Electoralism will still exist if you vote or not. Not participating in the vote doesn’t do shit to electoralism. You not voting won’t help the Palestinians. My voting won’t help them either, as we both agree. But there are people in my direct vicinity and in my life and in this country that I MIGHT have the off-chance of keeping from harm by sacrificing my own sense of “purity as an anarchist.” The electoral system doesn’t live nor die by my vote. To think that way is beyond self-centered.
Ah, a third party supporter I see
Fuck off.
We don’t like that we are only allowed to have two choices.
The problem is that a moderately small number of people and corporations who combined have more money than god have decided it’s a great idea to execute regulatory capture of the entire US government.
I just hope guillotine season starts before the world catches on fire.
You chose it and chastised someone for telling you to stop choosing it lmao
Do you genuinely think that the population of the United States likes only having two neoliberal political parties that have been able to get laws enacted that make it effectively impossible for any 3rd political party to exist in an effective fashion?
Pull your head out of your ass.
I think they keep voting for it, so if they don't like it they must be pretty fucking stupid.
What laws have they passed that force you to vote A or B?
Tell me you don't know how FPtP voting systems work by not telling me you don't know how FPtP voting works. Please read up on it and the "spoiler effect."
Any vote for a third party is a vote against your preferred candidate. It happens with any first-past-the-post voting and two parties is the eventual end result. Eventually multiple parties get eliminated by voters who don't want their vote to go to waste.
39 parties are represented in my country's Parliament. The UK has 10, Canada and Russia 5 each. Electoral systems like FPTP that produce a single winner tend to favour a two-party system (Duverger's law), but it is not inevitable.
it's FFtP that does that. It's your attitude that does that. You'd rather throw your hands up and whine about the situation than make even a tiny effort to change it.
Wtf are you talking about? Who said anything about not wanting or trying to change it? But voting third party will do nothing but fuck yourself and the party you'd rather have in power. No one with less than a 7-digit bank account wants to vote for one of two parties. We do what we must today for a chance to do what we want tomorrow. To do otherwise is either disingenuous, uninformed, selfish.
The US almost dropped the electoral college in the last decade. Back at that time we had a moderately functioning govt, higher taxes on the rich, and less money in politics.
That's why I say it won't change now. It's even more impossible than the last time we failed to make it happen.
Then stop doing it dumbass and stop encouraging other people to do it
It's clear you're trolling or your reading comprehension is subpar. Either way, I don't have time for either.
You literally have a choice, you make a choice that you don't like and then whine that you had no choice. It's clear you're either trolling or have a pretty severe victimization fetish.