this post was submitted on 07 Dec 2023
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I was just reading about how a current Israeli war minister’s son died in combat and it made me wonder that if Israeli’s politicians who make these decisions know their family will be affected by it personally and directly, does that lend towards the suggestion that it is more likely they are making genuinely ethically and morally correct decisions to engage in war stuff given their personal skin i the game?

It would seem totally different from American politicians like Cheney who create bullshit geopolitical conflicts knowing full well their progeny will never be touched by it…

Edit: I'm assuming they actually care/give a shit about their offspring and family, even if only just for appearences

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[–] masquenox@lemmy.world 8 points 11 months ago (20 children)

I'm not Israeli - but I grew up in a disturbingly similar political environment, Apartheid-era South Africa. In theory, conscription applied to all white males of "military age" (ie, a kid that's physically capable but still too dumb to resist the brainwashing). However, in reality, the children of the rich and powerful could buy their way out of it through various means (such as Phony Stark famously skipping South Africa right before his 18th birthday despite the fact that he wasn't as allergic to white supremacism as he claimed to be), while working class whites couldn't. I'm willing to bet that it pretty much works the same way in Israel.

There are lots of reasons why the children of the rich and powerful could end up on the front lines in wars that are still mostly foisted onto the children of the poor - an abusive father might gaslight their children into it, or it may simply be a case that not participating in all the jingoism might have an effect on careers later on (which might be the case in Israel, considering that militarism is so entwined in politics over there that it would have seemed insane even in Apartheid-era South Africa). It could just be that Snot's head has been filled with militarism and wouldn't dream of not participating. But the rich do get a choice in whether their children will be "boots on the ground" or not.

And no... the Israeli political establishment is no more making "ethically and morally correct decisions" than Apartheid-era South Africa's was - it is, after all, a white supremacist settler-colonialist state. The only way to make "ethically and morally correct decisions" is to not serve the Israeli war machine in any way whatsoever.

[–] dsemy@lemm.ee -2 points 11 months ago (17 children)

The rich and powerful can buy their way out of stuff anywhere...

I don't understand why you wrote so much about Israel when you clearly don't know what you're talking about. Calling middle eastern jews white supremacists is fucking insane, for example. I bet you wouldn't even be able to distinguish between an average Israeli Jew and Arab.

[–] masquenox@lemmy.world 5 points 11 months ago (13 children)

Calling middle eastern jews white supremacists is fucking insane

Are you talking about the European Jewish people who dominate Israel's political and economic establishments? Have you noticed that Netanyahu doesn't look Ethiopian, perhaps?

No, Clyde... it's perfectly obvious who it is that doesn't know what it is they are talking about, and it's the people doing apologetics for white supremacism. Ie, you.

[–] ExIsraeliAnarchist@kbin.social 2 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) (2 children)

I don't support the state of Israel, but I hate this bullshit argument so much - where do you think the European Jews came from to Europe, and why?

They came from Israel (the region, not the state, which didn't exist then) which they were expelled from, over generations, again and again, buy actual colonisers. And only wanted too return after centuries of pogroms that culminated in the holocaust, which was perpetrated by actual white supremacists.

Are racism, xenophobia, islamophobia and colourism all happening, and are influenced by white supremacy? Yes. Can Jews ever really be considered white supremacists? Not by any actual white supremacist, so no..

Is the state of Israel and the illegal settlements it supports now occupying some lands that aren't theres and oppressing the Palestinians whos lands those are? Yes.

Should they give those lands back and let their rightful residents live on them in peace (and be willing to share the places that are culturally and historically to both)? Yes.

Is Israel an apartheid state that discriminates against its Arab citizens? Yes.

Do Palestinians deserve freedom? Yes.

Does any of this erase thousands of years of history and mean that Jews, from wherever the fuck they were expelled to in the diaspora don't also have a rightful place on the land or are in any way comparable to actual colonisers who went to foreign lands they nor their ancestors had never set foot on and take them over? Absolutely fucking not.

More people really should actually study the history before making such ignorant claims https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Jews_and_Judaism_in_the_Land_of_Israel

[–] Nacktmull@lemm.ee -1 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago)

I don´t often see reasonable and differentiated takes like yours. Must be tiring to argue right wing Israelis and Israel haters at the same time. Remember to take a break sometimes to not get burnout my dude :)

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