this post was submitted on 25 Dec 2023
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Former New York Mayor Rudy Giuliani on Sunday offered a justification after he was found liable for defaming two former Georgia election workers, Shaye Moss and Ruby Freeman.

On his Sunday WABC radio program, Giuliani congratulated himself for a "brilliant legal move" because he recommended that then-President Donald Trump take his rigged election claims to state legislatures instead of the courts after the 2020 presidential vote.

"I went to Georgia, indicted, I went to Michigan, I went to Pennsylvania, I went to Arizona, and I went there, and I testified, and I brought my witnesses, and I said, among other things, if we lose, we'll have a historical record, yet we're going to prove this one day, Mr. President," he recalled telling Trump. "I don't even realize they're going to try to put us in prison, arrest us, raid our apartments."

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[–] foggy@lemmy.world 22 points 8 months ago (2 children)
[–] zogreface@lemmy.world 12 points 8 months ago (1 children)

Sedition, not treason. He's attempting to usurp the legal government process through extralegal reasons and replace our current form of government with a different one. Sedition wasn't covered in the constitution, but the Alien and Sedition acts were passed during the Adams administration in the leadup to the War of 1812 (our real war of independence). However, the Alien and Sedition acts were passed before the Supreme Court pulled the power of Judicial Review out of its ass, and it's likely they wouldn't surivive a modern test for constitutionality. Doubt we'll see any Attorney General bring charges under those acts, blatantly unconstitutional laws tend not to work well against white criminals with money to defend themselves.

Treason would be acting with a foreign agent to overthrow the government. For example, one could commit treason by supplying classified documents (that were stolen from the White House and improperly stored in a bathroom) containing information about identities of field agents to agents of foreign powers, in exchange for monetary and/or political gain. Even though most people would consider such actions to be treasonous, treason carries the death penalty so it's hard to get it to stick. Usually folk who do that sort of thing get tried under the Espionage Acts. See Manning and Winter, imprisoned for espionage; vs the Rosenbergs, executed for treason.

If we're talking criminal action, I'd think Rudy should be tried under the Alien and Sedition acts, but more likely various state election interference statutes. Someone who will remain nameless has clearly committed treason & espionage, though I doubt we'll ever see his Orangeness meet the same fate as either Manning/Winter or the Rosenbergs, despite his causing significantly more damage to our nation.

[–] ForestOrca@kbin.social 1 points 8 months ago

The 'foreign agent' is of Russia, near as any rational person could readily discern. I appreciate the distinction you've made, and tho' I'm not a lawyer, it's pretty clearly treason with Russia, and against the USA. And this applies to nearly all of them, Rudy, Orangey, a goodly portion of the GOP reps, judiciary, etc. And that's the real problem, what do you do when a 1/3 of your country commit treason?