Happy new year
this post was submitted on 01 Jan 2024
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I've tried to get a pedophile to see a therapist. I can tell you from a pure harm reduction perspective a bullet is much more likely to be the solution.
Is anecdotal evidence accurate? This guy says yes.
Don't call me a guy. And if you don't cite a study, anecdotes are still legitimately a better bet than pulling shit out of your arse
Go on, genuinely willing to have my mind changed. Something tells me you haven't googled any literature on the topic until now tho.
First things first: the only thing I did was disqualifying what you said, and since you used anecdotal evidence, I think it is more than fair that I did just that. How can I have pulled anything out of my arse if that is the only thing I did?
Anecdotal evidence being better than the supposed shit I said (I didn't find any, maybe you can point it out?) doesn't mean that your argument is any good, and wouldn't it be reasonable to expect good arguments if you are arguing for the bullet?
And I didn't need to do any research so far because just thinking for myself is sufficient at the moment, and before you ask me to do research, I'll recommend doing some yourself.
Anexdotal & qualitative evidence is absolutely preferable to no evidence. And there are areas where quantitative evidence is impossible to gather and/or, in individual cases, inapplicable.
I assummed from context that your conclusion was that killing a pedo isn't the answer. Sorry if the assumption was wrong but I think it's reasonable. In that case, the fact that you didn't even bother to provide analysis for that conclusion is NOT A POSITIVE. You can't assert something, then when asked for data to back it up say 'I didn't make a proper argument do I don't need data'.
My suggestion in the first place was: if you cannnot get a danger to children to seek help and/or can't get them locked up a bullet can very well and often be a justifiable course of action. I think you assummed I was drawing a universal moral prescription of how to deal with all cases and I see how, but I wasn't.
All I'm saying is that in many cases, a bullet for those who aren't willing to rehab is a valid way out, and there are a lot of those people.
Sorry for the lengthy ass comment, didn't see a way to shorten what I said while keepin the substance. When I have time I'd rather avoid empty snide quips like those you've been making
I want to make one thing clear about the intentions of my comments: all I was trying to do was disqualifying what you said, and the reason for that is simple: you drew a serious conclusion (arguing for the bullet) supported by weak evidence (anecdotal evidence), and I can't stand that.
The conclusion that you assumed in article 2 is not true, I wasn't asserting that, so I don't need evidence for that. My 'proper argument' was that yours was weak.
About article 3: Your conclusion appears to be quite different from the comment you made earlier. First you said that you tried to get a pedo to seek help, that your attempt failed and that therefore the bullet is the answer. Now you say that that is the solution when locking them up doesn't work (or get them to seek help.) Wouldn't that be a better solution in the first place? Why did you argue for the bullet straight away? Heck you even started arguing for the bullet without considering imprisonment one article further.
No, my argument was, as I said: a) if you cannot get a pedo to rehab, a bullet is better than letting them endanger others b) Those situations seem significantly more likely than pedos willingly participating in therapy - I listed an anecdote as an example because I thought the analysis as to why this is relatively intuitive. I can write it out if you disagree.
Hence a bullet is the more likely solution, not a universal one.
That's what I said, and I stand by it. And I stand by the example provided because I don't think analysis is needed for why a pedo is more likely to reject help than accept it and quantitative data on the subject is inexistent and unachievable.
Adding imprisonment to the mix is a valid complaint but doesn't change much, given how hard it is to even gather enough to allow police intervention, even when dealing with a self-admitted pedophile like I was.
The reason I assumed your conclusion is because of the context of the thread. Sorry for misunderstanding. Your stubborness on putting words in my mouth makes me a little more comfortable about it tho.
I might be wrong, but are you suggesting killing the pedo yourself? And another question, is the pedo in particular offending (meaning that they have commited crimes related to pedophilia, such as watching, or making CSAM, groping, molesting, etc.) or non-offending? In all my replies, including this one I assumed the latter, which I just realized might not be the case.
Maybe the bullet works from an american perspective: with easy acces to guns and a garbage justice system, maybe this is the source of our misunderstanding since I am European and the justice system in my country isn't shit and guns aren't easily accesible.
Even if this is the case I still disagree with your opinion. First of al because using the bullet sets a precedent that causes pedo's to hide the fact that they are even more, the next time you encounter one you might not even notice.
And to give them the benefit of the doubt, maybe they don't trust therapists. Maybe the pedo who confessed to you only did so because they trusted you, but that's just an assumption. And even if that wasn't the case in this anecdote, it might be true for many pedo's. It is a big secret after all. And considering how crazy people can go because of drag queens, because of the fear that they MIGHT do something to children, I can imagine that they rather keep their secret. It is not unreasonable to think some fear for their lives.
Can you maybe point out where my stubbornnes to put words in your mouth is? I don't think I have done so.
And I want to add a more nitpicky argument, stating that it is significantly more likely that a pedo doesn't seek help on the basis of 1 person is just plain wrong. Since the margin of error spans from basically 0% to 100%.
I'm European too, and in my country at least, I found no option to form a legal process against the pedophile.
The moron I was talking about had admitted to consuming CSAM in a group of people, I have no clue if he'd done anything else or has since, and knowing I failed to do anything about him I don't want to think about it too much.
The 'putting words in my mouth' was reffering to your insistence I'd made a general claim of 'killing pedos is moral' and not that 'it would be a solution if they refuse help and that seems likely to me, having dealt with one and tried to convince them to seek it'.
Comparing concerns of pedos to those of drag queens in any way whatsoever rubs me the wrong way on its own, and even then it's not the same, given pedophiles are actually a threat to children. Being concerned about your neighbour spontaneously exploding is dumb, fearing the same from a person who just drank 5 liters of 100% nitroglycerin before climbing on a trampoline is actually ok, methinks (best analogy ever, I know). I think it is absolutely on an otherwise mentally healthy pedophile to overcome their 'fear' and seek help, so much so I don't care what happens to them if they refuse to.
Again, I am willing to defer to experience where quantitative data is definetively unachievable to make my assumptions. I'm not writing a paper about it, but I'll gladly state it with confidence in conversation when I think I have more insight than the majority of people. When my parents told me not to stick my fingers in an outlet as a kid I listened, even though there were no studies proving 230 Volts kill 5 year olds... and the existence of reliable scientific data on these two topics is about equally unlikely.
I don't know if ypu're still interested, I was busy and kinda lost interest in this conversation.
I am glad that I now understand a bit better where you're coming from, my assumption that the pedophile you were talking about was non-offending was a mistake on my part. The reference to drag queens was not about the actual danger they present (which is as far as I know not significant) but about the perceived danger, which is unfortunately quite there, but it was based on a wrong assumption, at least in this case.
Now I am still not sure about your initial statement, I don't know which country you are from so that makes it a bit difficult to know what the justice system is there. Or acces to therapy for that matter.
(In my country (the Netherlands) you'd end up in prison if you actually do that, and to be fair, I wouldn't blame my country's justice system for doing that.)