this post was submitted on 22 Jul 2023
2098 points (97.4% liked)
Memes
45746 readers
1550 users here now
Rules:
- Be civil and nice.
- Try not to excessively repost, as a rule of thumb, wait at least 2 months to do it if you have to.
founded 5 years ago
MODERATORS
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
view the rest of the comments
Most people who praise communism don't know what communism is, and no, there have been no communist states ever, it's just impossible for such system to exist.
Socialism is the step before the communism you describe, and the people who support it are communists. Go read Marxist theory instead of relying on hearsay arguments like that.
I am pro socialism and I call myself socialist, not communist. Communism is a wet dream, not possible for our species to accomplish, just because majority of people will always want to have more than others. It's just our nature, you can't change that.
And even true socialism is far away, just because people are greedy and short-sighted.
What do you mean by socialism? Because the goal of socialism is to gradually arrive at communism. I don't know a lot of Marxist theory but what you say doesn't make much sense. No one (except for anarchists and maybe "new leftists") wants to jump to communism directly.
Unless by socialist you mean social-democrat.
Step one is literally: " parents should never see their children again, to prevent poisoning their mind with capitalist ideas"
citation needed
Yeah, I'm on it
I'm pretty sure the people who praise communism understand it better than you do
what makes such a system impossible?
What's utopian is painting a picture of the minutia of what communist society will look like, that's what you're doing now and what every Marxist repudiates
No state, no money, sure, because that's seen as a resolution of the contradictions in class society and therefore a logical conclusion
No law enforcement? Factories and shops? You've made up your own image of communism in your mind and have decided that's what everybody else thinks, and use your own utopia to discredit scientific socialists
Why would someone living under communism have to educate themselves on communist ideals? People living under capitalism don't educate themselves on capitalist ideals, they take it completely for granted because that's the status quo
Incredible how you call me butthurt but don't substantiate any of your claims whatsoever, just slinging insults as an argument. My what mechanism would communism always lead to tyranny? What mechanism makes "greedy selfish and materialistic" people destroy socialism from within? Do you think that Marx's ideology, a strictly and explicitly materialist one itself, wouldn't consider people are materialistic?
Police aren't the only form of law enforcement that could ever exist. if you're too "lazy" to think outside the box, whatever, but don't blame communists for doing it.
Yes I'm aware you would still work under communism, but you are once again using the conditions of capitalist production and just placing them in the communist mode of production assuming they wouldn't be fundamentally altered by the substantively different economic conditions. You never lived under communism, at best you lived under socialism, and most of your peers statistically prefer it to capitalism.
Communism is not an empathy-driven system, so your whole line about not caring about me is pretty pointless. What property do you even have to share? Are you going to resort to the "toothbrush" argument?
Scientific socialism was a term coined by Engels to describe marxism, is this your first time hearing it? You list out a bunch of "bogus" but can't seem to substantiate those claims. Maybe if you could you wouldn't have to "guess" that they're bogus?
LMAO, patently false. Capitalism is its own ideology too with its own theory and proponents and ideals.
Once again you prove your lack of understanding of Marxism by not understanding the distinction between communism and socialism.
You have still failed to explain how exactly people not being perfect undermines socialism. It seems like you think you can hide your lack of substance behind snarky self-righteousness but you're not making any actual criticism besides venting your obvious animosity towards socialists
tldr "I don't care about your opinion because my opinion is right and I don't have to back it up"
It's insane how dismissive you manage to be while also not substantiating any of your claims in any meaningful way aside from vaguely gesturing at communism itself or saying that it's not worth talking about
you keep saying "communists don't know this or that about communism" and that you're trying to discover what "communism might look like" when I told you in my first comment that trying to predict the minutia of communism is utopian
LMAO what???
I'm honestly still not sure what you mean by science didn't exist at the time or what context you might be referring to
You aren't supposed to build communism, we are supposed to build socialism, only when generations are reared in the social conditions of the socialist mode of production, and the international conditions allow, and the productive capacity allows, can the transition from socialism to communism take place.
Basically we are too far off from communism to build it directly and to predict the fine details of what it may look like, we need to build socialism first