this post was submitted on 21 Jan 2024
574 points (96.4% liked)

News

23397 readers
3561 users here now

Welcome to the News community!

Rules:

1. Be civil


Attack the argument, not the person. No racism/sexism/bigotry. Good faith argumentation only. This includes accusing another user of being a bot or paid actor. Trolling is uncivil and is grounds for removal and/or a community ban. Do not respond to rule-breaking content; report it and move on.


2. All posts should contain a source (url) that is as reliable and unbiased as possible and must only contain one link.


Obvious right or left wing sources will be removed at the mods discretion. We have an actively updated blocklist, which you can see here: https://lemmy.world/post/2246130 if you feel like any website is missing, contact the mods. Supporting links can be added in comments or posted seperately but not to the post body.


3. No bots, spam or self-promotion.


Only approved bots, which follow the guidelines for bots set by the instance, are allowed.


4. Post titles should be the same as the article used as source.


Posts which titles don’t match the source won’t be removed, but the autoMod will notify you, and if your title misrepresents the original article, the post will be deleted. If the site changed their headline, the bot might still contact you, just ignore it, we won’t delete your post.


5. Only recent news is allowed.


Posts must be news from the most recent 30 days.


6. All posts must be news articles.


No opinion pieces, Listicles, editorials or celebrity gossip is allowed. All posts will be judged on a case-by-case basis.


7. No duplicate posts.


If a source you used was already posted by someone else, the autoMod will leave a message. Please remove your post if the autoMod is correct. If the post that matches your post is very old, we refer you to rule 5.


8. Misinformation is prohibited.


Misinformation / propaganda is strictly prohibited. Any comment or post containing or linking to misinformation will be removed. If you feel that your post has been removed in error, credible sources must be provided.


9. No link shorteners.


The auto mod will contact you if a link shortener is detected, please delete your post if they are right.


10. Don't copy entire article in your post body


For copyright reasons, you are not allowed to copy an entire article into your post body. This is an instance wide rule, that is strictly enforced in this community.

founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
[–] givesomefucks@lemmy.world 67 points 10 months ago (2 children)

“The President in particular is very much a figurehead — he wields no real power whatsoever. He is apparently chosen by the government, but the qualities he is required to display are not those of leadership but those of finely judged outrage. For this reason the President is always a controversial choice, always an infuriating but fascinating character. His job is not to wield power but to draw attention away from it. On those criteria Zaphod Beeblebrox is one of the most successful Presidents the Galaxy has ever had — he has already spent two of his ten presidential years in prison for fraud.”

― Douglas Adams, The Hitchhiker’s Guide to the Galaxy

One of my favorite books, but depressing people were pointing shit out 50 years ago and society at large is still ignoring it today.

[–] azertyfun@sh.itjust.works 35 points 10 months ago (1 children)

It's obvious from this excerpt that Adams was mostly talking about British Prime Ministers, who are elected by the government and do not wield much (if any) power beyond that of being a figurehead. Of perhaps the Royalty, who aren't elected but hold even less power and are even more of a distraction.

The US president, by contrast, is not elected by the government and has a shit-ton of power, and increasingly so as the US congress is less and less able to govern due to Republican infighting. The US president can start and win a foreign war in less time than it takes congress to even form an opinion on the matter.

Zaphod spent two years in prison for fraud, meanwhile the US president is protected by more military firepower than literal nukes and has a chain of succession longer than most Kings because the US government literally cannot function without a President.

[–] ABCDE@lemmy.world 3 points 10 months ago (1 children)

Adams was mostly talking about British Prime Ministers, who are elected by the government and do not wield much (if any) power beyond that of being a figurehead

That's not true though.

[–] azertyfun@sh.itjust.works 6 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago) (2 children)

I'm not British so I might be off-base, but my understanding is that like other European parliamentary monarchies, the PM is the effective head-of-state but their title rests entirely on the good graces of the MPs who can (and often do) replace the PM.

Furthermore the Executive branch of government isn't particularly powerful, unlike the US. Maybe I'm fundamentally misunderstanding things but I don't often hear about a British PM spending billions or starting wars without parliamentary involvement, which US presidents regularly do even if they don't enjoy a majority in Congress (which is not a situation that British PMs can find themselves in by definition).

Of course the UK has the problem of FPTP voting which leads to (quasi) bipartism which means the PM has a rather symbiotic relationship with over half of parliament, but it's still a very different dynamic.

[–] ABCDE@lemmy.world 3 points 10 months ago

The King would be the figurehead you're thinking of. The PM may seem at the behest of his MPs (or the MPs of parliament in general), but, as we saw with Boris (fucking) Johnson and David (oink) Cameron, they can whip MPs, expel them if they defy the whip, prorogue parliament, call referenda, and many other acts which allow them to do as they wish if they wield their power in the 'right' way. There are things which the PM can do outside of parliament, as with any leader of a country; this includes starting wars, appointing members of the cabinet (and other branches).

This does a decent job of explaining it:

https://theweek.com/100451/is-the-british-prime-minister-too-powerful

[–] Ooops@kbin.social 0 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago) (1 children)

No, that's the monarch (where it still exists) or the president in parliamentary democracies (not presidential democracies).

The PM is in fact the leader of government and relies on the good graces of the governing party or parties, not unlike the US president candidate effectively needs to unite his party behind him.

The difference is mostly the ability to get removed/replaced hy his party but usually no term limits, where presidents are term-limited and there are explicit regulations how the parliament can remove them (something that is already inhently given in parliamental systems where the government leader is selected via parliamental majority in the first place).

[–] azertyfun@sh.itjust.works 1 points 10 months ago

I think you brush over a detail too fast. The US president needs to unite his party... until the last ballot is cast. That very instant, this stops being true for four years. Combined with a powerful executive that keeps the president very powerful even without legislative support.

Of course by definition any democratic system has checks and balances and ultimately ends up being representative of the will people in some way, but my point is that British PMs are a lot closer to being "harmless distractions" such as Zaphod than US presidents (also Douglas Adams was English).

[–] EdibleFriend@lemmy.world 1 points 10 months ago

But then several books later we see the person who's really in charge and he was great