this post was submitted on 03 Feb 2024
662 points (90.3% liked)
linuxmemes
21180 readers
994 users here now
Hint: :q!
Sister communities:
- LemmyMemes: Memes
- LemmyShitpost: Anything and everything goes.
- RISA: Star Trek memes and shitposts
Community rules (click to expand)
1. Follow the site-wide rules
- Instance-wide TOS: https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/
- Lemmy code of conduct: https://join-lemmy.org/docs/code_of_conduct.html
2. Be civil
- Understand the difference between a joke and an insult.
- Do not harrass or attack members of the community for any reason.
- Leave remarks of "peasantry" to the PCMR community. If you dislike an OS/service/application, attack the thing you dislike, not the individuals who use it. Some people may not have a choice.
- Bigotry will not be tolerated.
- These rules are somewhat loosened when the subject is a public figure. Still, do not attack their person or incite harrassment.
3. Post Linux-related content
- Including Unix and BSD.
- Non-Linux content is acceptable as long as it makes a reference to Linux. For example, the poorly made mockery of
sudoin Windows. - No porn. Even if you watch it on a Linux machine.
4. No recent reposts
- Everybody uses Arch btw, can't quit Vim, and wants to interject for a moment. You can stop now.
Please report posts and comments that break these rules!
founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
view the rest of the comments
That still sounds like a Wayland problem, just not one that they have control of
It is an Nvidia problem. And we need to insist on Nvidia being the problem until they give in. Their lack of wanting to take responsibility for distributing graphics cards on the market by not developing working drivers and not even letting the community fix it by open sourcing their driver is not something we should tolerate anymore. They pissed people enough at this point over the years, with their lack of participation in an driver problem-free environment on Linux, so they should and they will take the blame.
Their "dogshit" drivers work great on X and did so back when ATis hardware was both closed source and hot garbage on Linux and they were utter trash all the way from early 2000s to 2014.
Ok. I'm not really interested in how things were in 2008. I'm interested in the here and now, which is where Wayland is widely used and increasingly used by the day, Nvidia's drivers are a mess and AMD's aren't.
Person A: Man these Nvidia drivers keep causing issues
Person B: Umm ackshully Nvidia drivers used to be better than ATI drivers in 2008 ☝️🤓
Nvidia drivers continue to work great under X 2003-2024 for me. I'm sure Nvidia will work well under Wayland long before I bother to switch. The same folks who are always shitting on Nvidia seem to all own AMD hardware and many have spent years lying about Wayland being totally ready in 2015-2022 after they spent years lying about AMD GPU drivers being great in 2008-2013 when both were largely unusable in that time frame. Since few of the haters actually own any Nvidia hardware I presume they get their information from stroking each-others ego on reddit/lemmy/mastodon.
Yeah but X11 is unsuitable for modern computing.
Many do... because they know Nvidia is plagued with issues. Why would they buy hardware they've had/will have issues with?
I had to get rid of my 1080 Ti because of how unusably bad the Linux drivers were. AMD has ran great, out of the box, on X11 and Wayland. Wayland has been great, used it for years with no issues outside of with Nvidia hardware.
Maybe when Nvidia gets their shit together and have drivers that work properly ill give them another go.
I have a 1080. The drivers are great under X. I've been using nvidia hardware since 2003. Driver support has always been pretty good.
But their driver support isn't good, as is widely reported.
Even by the guy who literally created the kernel.
Linus didn't say they didn't work he doesn't like their failure to play nice with others. You can't use that cop out.
Maintaining good Linux drivers for something like a graphics card very much requires work with others.
It's a big reason for why Nvidia's drivers are pretty crappy.
Calling it a cop out sounds like major cope. Nvidia drivers on Linux are crappy. There's a reason everybody complains about them.
Nvidia's drivers for X have always been very good. Their drivers for wayland will be good before Wayland is
Wayland has been good for years.
Nvidia needs to fix their trash drivers, they're complete dog shit.
It's now getting to the port where its sort of fully functional. In several more years maybe we'll be to the point where users don't need to learn about the plumbing like X was 14 years ago.
X will never be fully functional, though. It's been abandoned
Fully functional: Performing all required functions. X is fully functional now. It was fully functional in 2003. It will be fully functional in 2032. It's feature complete and receiving security updates as recently as 30 days ago and is liable to receive them as long as Canonical and Red Hat have supported customers using this or around 10 years from Ubuntu 22.04 and RHEL 9.
Wayland proponents having failed to convert people to using Wayland by version of superior functionality have no resorted to claiming the technology used by 60% of users either doesn't work or will stop working real soon now.
https://linux-hardware.org/?view=os_display_server&period=-2
Narrator Voice: It will keep working for 8-10 years and most people have no compelling reason to switch immediately.
It doesn't do everything required for typical use of a modern computer. So no, not fully functional.
And even where it is functional, it does it in a janky and laughably insecure way.
Even X devs don't like X and prefer Wayland. Quit fanboying over X lmao
I'm sitting here on a modern computer. It is connected to 2 4K monitors and a 1080p monitor. Everything is scaled perfectly despite the 2 screens being very different DPI. There are applications to perform all the normal bog standard operations from managing files to watching movies not to mention apps for creating applications, making movies, editing photos, making music, playing tens of thousands of games The full range of software that is available for Linux runs under X less a microscopic number of items literally designed to replace pre-existing X software for instance sway to replace i3 or a foot a terminal emulator for wayland.
X works on stable slower moving distros where wayland presents a more buggy and less feature complete experience because basic functionality requires recently released updates whereas stable distros may be a year or more behind.
X works well on Nvidia hardware which represents over 80% of discrete cards and is literally the only professional GPU anyone uses for any usage other than just driving displays.
What "typical uses" do you imagine aren't covered? The problem with wayland proponents is not their enthusiasm its the fact that they lie so much.
Mhmm
Nail on the head.
Lol
This is happened with Vista, amongst other problems.
Until they give in what? What in your fantasies does the open source community of randos have over Nvidia again? Will you withhold your 0.1% of their profits after cost of develoment is considered? If you had paid even the slightest attention you would note the progress in open source drivers supporting newer hardware.
Nvidia has a closed source driver. Wayland tries to support it but Nvidia keeps changing how the driver works every week. So it's impossible to deliver quality with Nvidia shit.
Why are you lying? Large software projects change slowly and stuff like GPU drivers work according to standards and interfaces. The bugs experienced aren't even on the open source software side. The bugs in the general case are largely in the nvidia side and being fixed on that side albeit not briskly.
For sure, but unfortunately, that's still a Wayland problem.