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New Zealand repeals world-first smoking ban passed by Jacinda Ardern (www.independent.co.uk)
submitted 8 months ago by MicroWave@lemmy.world to c/worldnews@lemmy.world
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Reversal of smoking ban criticised as ‘shameful’ for lacking evidence

New Zealand is repealing the world’s first smoking ban passed under former prime minister Jacinda Arden’s government to pave the way for a smoke-free generation amid backlash from researchers and campaigners over its risk to Indigenous people.

The new coalition government led by prime minister Christopher Luxon confirmed the repeal will happen on Tuesday, delivering on one of the actions of his coalition’s ambitious 100-day plan.

The government repeal will be put before parliament as a matter of urgency, enabling it to scrap the law without seeking public comment, in line with previously announced plans.

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[–] Dasus@lemmy.world 1 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago) (1 children)

No evidence of what? That second hand smoke is harmful? Are you on meth?

The studies don’t show that. They merely assert that, without the data to back it up.

"No, the science is wrong, and me, a childish person on a pseydoanonymous forum ASSERTING the science is wrong is more credible than the science they use to show their conclusions are backed up by the data. Oh and don't even try to get me to actually comment on what I think is wrong in the data, because I haven't even read it." - You

That’s absolutely an argument, and it’s not grasping at anything.

Yes, it is grasping. Because you're not even refuting that SHS is harmful, you're trying to assert that outdoors, there is no SHS, by trying to show concentrations measured. So implicitly, you're admitting that any SHS IS harmful, because of course you are, because we all know that to be true, lol.

And you still haven’t sent any proof.

My stomach can't take much more of this :DDD

See, you already ignored the studies when I only quote their conclusions and the most important parts of them. What on Earth are you gonna do when I paste the entire study here?

This is from this exact thread, 3 comments earlier:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2974716/

#No level of smoking or exposure to secondhand smoke [SHS] is safe. Even at the lowest detectable levels of exposure, we could detect changes in gene expression within the cells lining the airways

https://news.ufl.edu/2023/09/secondhand-smoke-exposure/

https://tobaccoatlas.org/challenges/secondhand-smoke/

#It is widely recognized through scientific evidence that there is no safe level of exposure to SHS

“Widely recognised.”

Show me ANY STUDY WHATSOEVER that says that there is a SAFE level of second hand smoke. Please. I've been waiting and asking for several comments now. Oh and, a bit too ashamed to answer the comment where you talk about "you need to understand there's a huge bias with tobacco..." when I replied to it with this? https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3490543/

#Inventing Conflicts of Interest: A History of Tobacco Industry Tactics

By the early 1960s—despite categorical research findings indicating the harms of smoking—a significant “controversy” had arisen (at the behest of the tobacco industry) over the validity and meaning of these findings. Indeed, given the widespread acceptance of the conclusion, especially among those who had analyzed and evaluated the research most closely, the persistence of debate about the harms of smoking is a striking demonstration of the powerful impact of the tobacco industry's public relations campaign. The industry insistence, at the direction of Hill & Knowlton, on the notion of no proof and the need for more research was an inspired if cynical manipulation of the natural tendencies within science to encourage skepticism and seek more complete answers to important questions.

Completely unlike what you're doing, amirite? :DDDDDD That's what is so hilarious; you're using century old rhetoric. It's like arguing someone who's genuinely insistent that "reefer madness" is a thing :DDD

You haven't linked a single study of any sort. You just keep stomping your foot and saying "NYAAAH NO NO NO THEY'RE WRONG AND I DON'T NEED TO TELL YOU HOW THEY'RE WRONG THEY'RE JUST ANGRY AT SMOKERS NYAAAAH"

[–] Cryophilia@lemmy.world 0 points 8 months ago (1 children)

No evidence of what? That second hand smoke is harmful?

Straw man. Don't be stupid. Argue against what I said, not what you want me to have said

[–] Dasus@lemmy.world 1 points 8 months ago (1 children)

“No, the science is wrong, and me, a childish person on a pseydoanonymous forum ASSERTING the science is wrong is more credible than the science they use to show their conclusions are backed up by the data. Oh and don’t even try to get me to actually comment on what I think is wrong in the data, because I haven’t even read it.” - You

That’s absolutely an argument, and it’s not grasping at anything.

Yes, it is grasping. Because you’re not even refuting that SHS is harmful, you’re trying to assert that outdoors, there is no SHS, by trying to show concentrations measured. So implicitly, you’re admitting that any SHS IS harmful, because of course you are, because we all know that to be true, lol.

And you still haven’t sent any proof.

My stomach can’t take much more of this :DDD

See, you already ignored the studies when I only quote their conclusions and the most important parts of them. What on Earth are you gonna do when I paste the entire study here?

This is from this exact thread, 3 comments earlier:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2974716/

#No level of smoking or exposure to secondhand smoke [SHS] is safe. Even at the lowest detectable levels of exposure, we could detect changes in gene expression within the cells lining the airways

https://news.ufl.edu/2023/09/secondhand-smoke-exposure/

https://tobaccoatlas.org/challenges/secondhand-smoke/

#It is widely recognized through scientific evidence that there is no safe level of exposure to SHS

“Widely recognised.”

Show me ANY STUDY WHATSOEVER that says that there is a SAFE level of second hand smoke. Please. I’ve been waiting and asking for several comments now. Oh and, a bit too ashamed to answer the comment where you talk about “you need to understand there’s a huge bias with tobacco…” when I replied to it with this? https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3490543/

#Inventing Conflicts of Interest: A History of Tobacco Industry Tactics

By the early 1960s—despite categorical research findings indicating the harms of smoking—a significant “controversy” had arisen (at the behest of the tobacco industry) over the validity and meaning of these findings. Indeed, given the widespread acceptance of the conclusion, especially among those who had analyzed and evaluated the research most closely, the persistence of debate about the harms of smoking is a striking demonstration of the powerful impact of the tobacco industry’s public relations campaign. The industry insistence, at the direction of Hill & Knowlton, on the notion of no proof and the need for more research was an inspired if cynical manipulation of the natural tendencies within science to encourage skepticism and seek more complete answers to important questions.

Completely unlike what you’re doing, amirite? :DDDDDD That’s what is so hilarious; you’re using century old rhetoric. It’s like arguing someone who’s genuinely insistent that “reefer madness” is a thing :DDD

You haven’t linked a single study of any sort. You just keep stomping your foot and saying “NYAAAH NO NO NO THEY’RE WRONG AND I DON’T NEED TO TELL YOU HOW THEY’RE WRONG THEY’RE JUST ANGRY AT SMOKERS NYAAAAH”

1

You ignored 98% of the comment.

[–] Cryophilia@lemmy.world 0 points 8 months ago (1 children)

I mean yeah when it looks like you had a seizure and started flopping around on your keyboard, I tend to ignore that

[–] Dasus@lemmy.world 2 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago) (1 children)

Oh, I didn't realise that you're delusional to the point that it distorts your perceptions. My bad. I'll try to format it even simpler for you.

Show me ANY STUDY WHATSOEVER that says that there is a SAFE level of second hand smoke.

Because all the science on the subject says there isn't one, but you keep arguing there is.

Now I'm going to paste URL's, they might look a bit weird, they're like links to pages on the internet. Hang in there!

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2974716/

https://news.ufl.edu/2023/09/secondhand-smoke-exposure/

https://tobaccoatlas.org/challenges/secondhand-smoke/

Here are a few things the studies behind these URL's say:

#No level of smoking or exposure to secondhand smoke [SHS] is safe. Even at the lowest detectable levels of exposure, we could detect changes in gene expression within the cells lining the airways

#It is widely recognized through scientific evidence that there is no safe level of exposure to SHS

I find it hard to believe that you didn't actually understand my previous comment, but who am I to say that the cognitively challenged don't browse Lemmy? But if you made it this far in the comment, then you're probably not challenged that severely, so we can both admit that you're just pretending not to understand, because you're willfully ignoring the evidence. Exactly like Flat Earthers and anti-vaxxers do in every debate they engage in.

You're (poorly) parroting 1960's tobacco companies rhetoric. It's ridiculous. :D

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3490543/

The story of the tobacco “controversy” and the industry's deliberative attempts to disrupt science is now, fortunately, fairly well known. In large measure, this story emerged only as a result of whistle blowers and litigation that led to the revelation of millions of pages of internal tobacco documents that both laid out this strategy and documented its implementation.39 But what has often gone overlooked in the assessment of the tobacco episode was the highly articulated, strategic character of seizing the scientific initiative, the engineering of science. This, however, was a factor well understood by John Hill and the public relations teams that advised the companies. They carefully documented what the scientific investment would buy and how best for the companies to protect and defend that investment.

"What you need to understand... is that there's a huge bias against tobacco" - you :DDD

[–] Cryophilia@lemmy.world 0 points 8 months ago (1 children)

:DDD

[–] Dasus@lemmy.world 2 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago) (1 children)

"Ofc I can't reply to any of what you wrote, because I'd have to address how deeply wrong I am in this, but my obsession over getting 'the last word' means I literally can't stop replying no matter how stupid I look in the thread"

Please. By any means, prove me wrong and produce data on safe SHS levels.

Oh wait, all the data says there is no safe level of exposure.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2974716/

https://news.ufl.edu/2023/09/secondhand-smoke-exposure/

https://tobaccoatlas.org/challenges/secondhand-smoke/

#It is widely recognized through scientific evidence that there is no safe level of exposure to SHS

[–] Cryophilia@lemmy.world 0 points 8 months ago (1 children)

I stopped reading bc I assumed you'd shortly die from laughter, and there's no sense debating a dead man

[–] Dasus@lemmy.world 1 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago) (1 children)

"I'm obsessed over this to the point I need to reply, but I also need to pretend I didn't see a single line of text whole entire three sentences you just wrote. I just have to reply, despite knowing how wrong I am. I can't admit that Israel is genociding people. I'd rather pretend I can't read than admit that I have been influenced by propaganda."

Please. By any means, prove me wrong and produce data on safe SHS levels.

Oh wait, all the data says there is no safe level of exposure.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2974716/

https://news.ufl.edu/2023/09/secondhand-smoke-exposure/

https://tobaccoatlas.org/challenges/secondhand-smoke/

It is widely recognized through scientific evidence that there is no safe level of exposure to SHS

[–] Cryophilia@lemmy.world 0 points 8 months ago (1 children)
[–] Dasus@lemmy.world 1 points 8 months ago (1 children)

See? If you can't argue the matter, why are you replying?

You're incapable of saying why you are in this thread to begin with. Everyone knows, it's written right there.

So defend your argument, stop replying, or (and this I assume is the one you choose) keep acting like a five-year old and pretend like you don't even know what I'm talking about.

All the data says there is no safe level of exposure to second-hand smoke.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2974716/

https://news.ufl.edu/2023/09/secondhand-smoke-exposure/

https://tobaccoatlas.org/challenges/secondhand-smoke/

It is widely recognized through scientific evidence that there is no safe level of exposure to SHS

But please, prove to everyone that you are a petulant kid by replying once more, but without being able to address why you're ignoring everything and acting like a toddler.

[–] Cryophilia@lemmy.world 1 points 8 months ago (1 children)
[–] Dasus@lemmy.world 1 points 8 months ago

See? If you can't argue the matter, why are you replying? Just like I said. Dancing to my exact tune. Why not just give up, why make a fool of yourself?

You're incapable of saying why you are in this thread to begin with. Everyone knows, it's written right there.

So defend your argument, stop replying, or (and this I assume is the one you choose) keep acting like a five-year old and pretend like you don't even know what I'm talking about.

All the data says there is no safe level of exposure to second-hand smoke.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2974716/

https://news.ufl.edu/2023/09/secondhand-smoke-exposure/

https://tobaccoatlas.org/challenges/secondhand-smoke/

It is widely recognized through scientific evidence that there is no safe level of exposure to SHS

But please, prove to everyone that you are a petulant kid by replying once more, but without being able to address why you're ignoring everything and acting like a toddler.