this post was submitted on 18 Mar 2024
348 points (94.2% liked)

TenForward: Where Every Vulcan Knows Your Name

3802 readers
351 users here now

/c/TenFoward: Your home-away-from-home for all things Star Trek!

Re-route power to the shields, emit a tachyon pulse through the deflector, and post all the nonsense you want. Within reason of course.

~ 1. No bigotry. This is a Star Trek community. Remember that diversity and coexistence are Star Trek values. Any post/comments that are racist, anti-LGBT, or generally "othering" of a group will result in removal/ban.

~ 2. Keep it civil. Disagreements will happen both on lore and preferences. That's okay! Just don't let it make you forget that the person you are talking to is also a person.

~ 3. Use spoiler tags. This applies to any episodes that have dropped within 3 months prior of your posting. After that it's free game.

~ 4. Keep it Trek related. This one is kind of a gimme but keep as on topic as possible.

~ 5. Keep posts to a limit. We all love Star Trek stuff but 3-4 posts in an hour is plenty enough.

~ 6. Try to not repost. Mistakes happen, we get it! But try to not repost anything from within the past 1-2 months.

~ 7. No General AI Art. Posts of simple AI art do not 'inspire jamaharon'

~ 8. No Political Upheaval. Political commentary is allowed, but please keep discussions civil. Read here for our community's expectations.

Fun will now commence.


Sister Communities:

!startrek@lemmy.world

!memes@lemmy.world

!tumblr@lemmy.world

!lemmyshitpost@lemmy.world

Want your community to be added to the sidebar? Just ask one of our mods!


Honorary Badbitch:

@jawa21@startrek.website for realizing that the line used to be "want to be added to the sidebar?" and capitalized on it. Congratulations and welcome to the sidebar. Stamets is both ashamed and proud.


Creator Resources:

Looking for a Star Trek screencap? (TrekCore)

Looking for the right Star Trek typeface/font for your meme? (Thank you @kellyaster for putting this together!)


founded 10 months ago
MODERATORS
 
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
[–] Shareni@programming.dev 3 points 8 months ago (1 children)

Here's a bit from the introduction**:

The manner of life in such a State is that of democrats; there is freedom and plainness of speech, and every man does what is right in his own eyes, and has his own way of life. Hence arise the most various developments of character; the State is like a piece of embroidery of which the colours and figures are the manners of men, and there are many who, like women and children, prefer this variety to real beauty and excellence. The State is not one but many, like a bazaar at which you can buy anything. The great charm is, that you may do as you like; you may govern if you like, let it alone if you like; go to war and make peace if you feel disposed, and all quite irrespective of anybody else. When you condemn men to death they remain alive all the same; a gentleman is desired to go into exile, and he stalks about the streets like a hero; and nobody sees him or cares for him. Observe, too, how grandly Democracy sets her foot upon all our fine theories of education,—how little she cares for the training of her statesmen! The only qualification which she demands is the profession of patriotism. Such is democracy;—a pleasing, lawless, various sort of government, distributing equality to equals and unequals alike.

...

Thus he lives in the fancy of the hour; sometimes he takes to drink, and then he turns abstainer; he practises in the gymnasium or he does nothing at all; then again he would be a philosopher or a politician; or again, he would be a warrior or a man of business; he is

‘Every thing by starts and nothing long.’

...

When the people meet, they are omnipotent, but they cannot be brought together unless they are attracted by a little honey; and the rich are made to supply the honey, of which the demagogues keep the greater part themselves, giving a taste only to the mob. Their victims attempt to resist; they are driven mad by the stings of the drones, and so become downright oligarchs in self-defence. Then follow informations and convictions for treason. The people have some protector whom they nurse into greatness, and from this root the tree of tyranny springs. The nature of the change is indicated in the old fable of the temple of Zeus Lycaeus, which tells how he who tastes human flesh mixed up with the flesh of other victims will turn into a wolf. Even so the protector, who tastes human blood, and slays some and exiles others with or without law, who hints at abolition of debts and division of lands, must either perish or become a wolf—that is, a tyrant. Perhaps he is driven out, but he soon comes back from exile; and then if his enemies cannot get rid of him by lawful means, they plot his assassination. Thereupon the friend of the people makes his well-known request to them for a body-guard, which they readily grant, thinking only of his danger and not of their own. Now let the rich man make to himself wings, for he will never run away again if he does not do so then. And the Great Protector, having crushed all his rivals, stands proudly erect in the chariot of State, a full-blown tyrant: Let us enquire into the nature of his happiness.

*This was the best condensed elaboration I could find. I'd suggest reading the dialogues if this sounds interesting. *

[–] AVincentInSpace@pawb.social 1 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago) (1 children)

"Good times create weak men who think they know everything"

I would like to ask Plato to take a long look in the mirror. What he's written there by all accounts seems to be an argument against democracy itself, and it's not even an accurate one.

[–] Shareni@programming.dev 3 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago)

First of all, no shit. Plato was against democracy and at one point ended up being sold into slavery when he tutored the tyrant of Syracuse as a psycho-political experiment. His teacher, Socrates, was killed by democracy, and then democratically got a statue of him erected when the people realised what they did (read the trial of Socrates).

Secondly, in this book (VIII) he explains the cycle of political regimes, how oligarchy turns to democracy, and democracy to tyranny (and others but these are relevant). The main purpose of this book is to support his stance that only philospoher-kings are fit to rule justly.

Finally, keep in mind that the republic was written in ~375 BC. The critique of democracy is going to be different as Athenians had different forms of it. Plato and Socrates also lived through the rule of the 30 tyrants, and the reinstitution of democracy. He uses actual historical events in this critique. For example the bit about bodyguards was a reference to Pisistratus and how he became a tyrant. Try to find a short history of Athenian politics, it's both fascinating and concerning.

Read the parts I've copied again, and if you don't see any parallels with the current state of affairs, read the dialogues. If you still don't agree, form an actual argument.