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The Government Isn’t Ready for the Violence Trump Might Unleash (www.theatlantic.com)

submitted 7 months ago by gAlienLifeform@lemmy.world to c/usa@lemmy.ml

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Archived at https://web.archive.org/web/20240409122354/https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2024/04/biden-trump-january-6-preparedness/677995/

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[–] the_post_of_tom_joad@sh.itjust.works 0 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago) (1 children)

If youre gonna start out with things like "basic understanding" you must understand that people aren't going to read the rest, right?

I'm challenging that notion, and putting forth the idea that notion itself fostered by the media, who benefit by limiting our free democracy as much as they can.

Capice? Let's talk without attitude, and with the understanding that neither of us knows more than the other.

[–] agamemnonymous@sh.itjust.works 7 points 7 months ago (2 children)

What attitude? You asked where we learned the adage that "voting third party is throwing your vote away", I stated that it was evident in the basic math of the First Past the Post mechanism. It's not a notion to be challenged, it's a mathematical inevitability. The FPTP system is what obstructs free democracy. The futility of third parties is only a symptom of FPTP elections. Attacking the notion of third party futility is ignoring the symptom. The only cure is changing from FPTP to a different electoral model.

[–] PowerCrazy@lemmy.ml 1 points 7 months ago (1 children)

And you will change to this different model how? By voting?

[–] agamemnonymous@sh.itjust.works 1 points 7 months ago (1 children)

Yes, that's how representative democracy works. Do you have an alternative method which yields better results?

[–] PowerCrazy@lemmy.ml -1 points 7 months ago (1 children)

So then there shouldn't be any issue with me voting for socialists, since they are who represent me and my views best. Sounds good.

[–] agamemnonymous@sh.itjust.works 1 points 7 months ago (1 children)

I'm the primaries? Of course! In the general? Of course not, did you completely ignore everything that's been said? Splitting the vote on the left only hurts us. The only people who advocate leftists voting third party are people who don't understand FPTP, and people who want the left to lose.

[–] PowerCrazy@lemmy.ml 0 points 7 months ago (1 children)

My ballot must be different then yours, I don't see any leftist parties who represent "us" in the general election at the federal level.

[–] agamemnonymous@sh.itjust.works 1 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago)

I see two front-runners in the general election at the federal level. One is a centrist neoliberal party, the other is a fascist party. My interests lie with the fascist party losing. Since our system is FPTP, that goal is achieved by voting for the lesser evil. Voting third party increases the odds of the fascist party winning, so that is unaligned with my interests.

[–] the_post_of_tom_joad@sh.itjust.works -2 points 7 months ago (1 children)

If you don't think answering "basic math" is rude then i guess we'll have to disagree.

It's not a notion to be challenged, it’s a mathematical inevitability.

That's a brash claim, not really supported by your video.

Actually nevermind that. It really doesn't matter, since fptp is what we're got, and ranked choice is not.

focusing on this bit is ignoring my basic premise, my assertion of the media's deliberate pushing of the two-party narrative. It's only a "mathematical inevitability" with a lot of help from those who own the media and directly benefit from omitting all but the two candidates they favor

[–] agamemnonymous@sh.itjust.works 3 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago) (1 children)

If you think acknowledging basic math is offensive I don't know how to communicate the principle here. Your basic premise is either uninformed, or a deliberate bad faith attempt to divide the left.

Pretending that the principles of FPTP are different doesn't make them so. As I said before, the cure is ranked choice. The mechanism of getting there is consistent turnout in primaries and all elections, especially local. That's the only way to push the Democratic party toward ranked choice, which is the only reasonable way to achieve ranked choice, which is the only way to make third parties viable.

Voting third party in FPTP only splits the vote and hurts the left. Your point about he media narrative, while not false, is not particularly relevant. The main issue is FPTP.

[–] the_post_of_tom_joad@sh.itjust.works -3 points 7 months ago (1 children)

Your point about he media narrative, while not false, is not particularly relevant.

Ok. Have a good one

[–] agamemnonymous@sh.itjust.works 1 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago) (1 children)

Have a good one

Thank you, I will try my hardest.

Presently, the biggest obstacle to that goal is the combination of ignorance and propaganda affecting the upcoming election cycle, which has been empowering the right and fragmenting the left. The goodness of the one I am going to have is largely proportional to leftist turnout, and largely inversely proportional to the percentage of leftists confused by that ignorance and propaganda.

[–] the_post_of_tom_joad@sh.itjust.works 1 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago)

[Large] percentage of leftists confused by ignorance and propaganda.

You nailed it. There are so many, leftists and otherwise. I don't blame those who are since we're drowning in a veritable flood of bad info by bad actors, but i hope and believe it can get better. but with all the fud out there it's not going to be easy.

I hope you get what you need from your efforts, same as i, and together we all come out of this garbage reality with our lives and loves intact.