589
Democrats need to pull themselves together and remember: Biden is still better than Trump
(www.usatoday.com)
this post was submitted on 15 Apr 2024
589 points (88.9% liked)
politics
19135 readers
2693 users here now
Welcome to the discussion of US Politics!
Rules:
- Post only links to articles, Title must fairly describe link contents. If your title differs from the site’s, it should only be to add context or be more descriptive. Do not post entire articles in the body or in the comments.
Links must be to the original source, not an aggregator like Google Amp, MSN, or Yahoo.
Example:
- Articles must be relevant to politics. Links must be to quality and original content. Articles should be worth reading. Clickbait, stub articles, and rehosted or stolen content are not allowed. Check your source for Reliability and Bias here.
- Be civil, No violations of TOS. It’s OK to say the subject of an article is behaving like a (pejorative, pejorative). It’s NOT OK to say another USER is (pejorative). Strong language is fine, just not directed at other members. Engage in good-faith and with respect! This includes accusing another user of being a bot or paid actor. Trolling is uncivil and is grounds for removal and/or a community ban.
- No memes, trolling, or low-effort comments. Reposts, misinformation, off-topic, trolling, or offensive. Similarly, if you see posts along these lines, do not engage. Report them, block them, and live a happier life than they do. We see too many slapfights that boil down to "Mom! He's bugging me!" and "I'm not touching you!" Going forward, slapfights will result in removed comments and temp bans to cool off.
- Vote based on comment quality, not agreement. This community aims to foster discussion; please reward people for putting effort into articulating their viewpoint, even if you disagree with it.
- No hate speech, slurs, celebrating death, advocating violence, or abusive language. This will result in a ban. Usernames containing racist, or inappropriate slurs will be banned without warning
We ask that the users report any comment or post that violate the rules, to use critical thinking when reading, posting or commenting. Users that post off-topic spam, advocate violence, have multiple comments or posts removed, weaponize reports or violate the code of conduct will be banned.
All posts and comments will be reviewed on a case-by-case basis. This means that some content that violates the rules may be allowed, while other content that does not violate the rules may be removed. The moderators retain the right to remove any content and ban users.
That's all the rules!
Civic Links
• Congressional Awards Program
• Library of Congress Legislative Resources
• U.S. House of Representatives
Partnered Communities:
• News
founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
view the rest of the comments
So you think something that last happened nearly 40 years ago is relevant to how the world order seems to work today? Like, that’s literally right after the beginning of the deregulation spree that has lasted…through today.
So much has changed in these last few decades. That just seems like a disingenuous comparison.
And look, I’m not a democrat. I’m a near lifelong third party voter actually. But I voted third party in 2016 and I felt…guilty. For the first time in my life. It made me seriously question why I voted third party. I’m an anarchist. But I’m also a realist. And I don’t want people I know and care for and groups I see struggle every day to be thrown into the fire because it means I get to hold my head up high and say I’m above it. You and I probably agree on a whole lot, actually. But on this issue, one I’ve thought about for most of my life at this point, logically I can’t come to another conclusion—even if my confidence in this position wavers from time to time. Because I don’t support Biden. I know the democrats are a problematic organization that actually fueled the surge to the right. They actually profited from trump, so they have a vested interest in running against him over and over. Or getting him back in office, honestly. They raised so much money when trump was in office. Even when the republicans held both chambers and the White House, the democrats were amassing power by virtue of having a boogeyman.
I know the path we’re on is due to the constant “lesser of two evils” choice we’re given. And it won’t lead us out of it. But neither will allowing trump and his true fascist party to get their hands back on the levers of power. More radical right wing Christo-fascist judges, probably another Supreme Court seat if a Republican is put back in office because I guarantee you Thomas will retire under the next Republican president. But maybe he’ll die in the next four years with a democrat in office. Think of how many harmful rulings that could stop.
The genocide issue is the worst situation we could have to navigate. And it’s the worst one to have to put any sort of support behind. But it’s not the only issue. Right now, women have some states in which they can go for an abortion. That number is decreasing. What will women and the babies they don’t want do then? Trans people have some safe havens and some supporters in the democrats. Get the most vindictive, hot-button issue button presser back in office? That is suddenly much less meaningful when those supporters are just shouting into the void. Not to mention the climate emergency. Which…I can’t even imagine what four more years of trump appointments to the EPA would do.
The choice to not vote for Biden isn’t doing the Palestinian people any good. In fact, it’ll probably be much, much worse for them under trump. You think it can’t get worse? It very much can. And it absolutely will if trump is the one they have in office. No more even subtle pressure from the US to try to salvage our own image. Just full steam ahead.
I say again, it’s a selfish decision to throw your hands up and say “I can’t vote to protect people because what would that say about me?”
It can't be worse for them under Trump, and if genocide costs Biden the election, maybe, just maybe, next time a president has the choice to fuel a genocide, they will think twice.
That’s so foolish. Things can absolutely get worse. And they would. There is some element of shame involved with the democrats, at least. Or, more an awareness of the optics. So that brings a level of hesitation and reticence to the support. And that actually matters. Bring someone with no shame and a slobbering throng of hateful, vocal supporters into the mix? How can you be so deluded to think that wouldn’t be worse.
We all get it, the situation right now isn’t one we can support. But pushing a big boulder 10ft with teamwork and some simple machinery is much easier and somewhat doable, as opposed to pushing that same boulder 10,000ft with one hand, against the wind of a hurricane. The democrats are vulnerable on this. The republicans are not. Because they are immune to shame. They are immune to global pressure. To constituent input. To the concept of appearing somewhat decent.
It’s not a good situation. In fact, it’s a bad situation. But it can always get worse.
And that’s before we even discuss women’s healthcare, trans healthcare, the environment, appointing judges and justices, etc. There’s no other answer that could justify throwing all of the groups vulnerable to these issues under the bus. And even if it were like you say, that the Palestine situation can’t get any worse? You’d be literally throwing all of these groups under the bus for more of the same in Palestine anyway. So by your own logic, it makes sense to keep republicans out of office. So, conversation over, basically.
You're ignoring the cost of establishing a norm that genocide isn't beyond the pale.
I’d disagree. The world won’t stop spinning if you make this valiant gesture. Everything will continue on as normal. Not voting doesn’t send a clear message. They’ll have analysts analyzing “what happened” for years. But nowhere will it be made clear that the one issue you decided to throw your hands up on everything else about was the actual reason you didn’t vote. It won’t change anything. Except for you not making a decision.
It’s not a pleasant reality. But it’s the only one we have.
It will be crystal clear. The uncommitted vote in Michigan made it clear. If Biden loses in November, the whole world will know exactly why. And Biden will have no one to blame but himself. It's not a pleasant reality.
That’s incredibly wishful thinking. Remember 2016? How many years afterward were outlets still discussing “how did this happen?!” It was “working class whites” and it was “trump tapped into pro-worker rhetoric” and it was “Hillary didn’t visit michigian and Pennsylvania” and it was Cambridge analytica and it was anti establishment sentiments and blah blah blah. Things aren’t always as clear as you’d like them to be. Analysts actually study this shit and…I think you’d be surprised how not universal among the American voting populace this idea that Palestine is a major issue actually is. Most people don’t vote on issues. Or, if they do, it’s about a lot of issues. Single issue voters aren’t so ubiquitous in the data points. Because how exactly are you going to convey that this issue was the issue that changed your mind?
Yeah, it can start to feel that way for us younger generations because we live online. But the majority of people don’t interact with politics this way. And those of us that do aren’t represented fully when the thinkpieces get written. The “uncommitted” movement in he primaries was a calculated effort to send a message, but it’s been repeated over and over how that attitude shouldn’t carry over into the general. So that momentum is now completely gone and that explanation for not voting for Biden is lost.
You never responded to my point above though. If it’s the same for the Palestinian people either way, how can you justify sacrificing the communities trump and the republicans will target?
I assume that means you have no answer?