My partner and I just had a talk about it. Basically, she celebrated her birthday today. I was on her party, and it was fun, but I left after around 2 hours to get home and relax a bit. After I arrived, a friend of mine texted me and asked me if I wanted to go to a lake and see the sunset. I agreed, we went to the lake and went swimming in it; it was really nice. Later, after arriving at my partners, she talked with me that it hurts her that I went out with someone else on her birthday, doing a romantically coded activity.
To be honest, I realize that I don't have a single clue what is coded as a romantically coded activity. For me, this was something completely okay and appropriate, because it is for me clearly a friend-thing; but my partner explained to me that the combination of going out with another person on her birthday and going to a sea, which is a secluded place, just heavily connotates it in a romantic way.
I understand that what I've done here wasn't right, and that I have responsibility here. Even though I didn't want to hurt my partner, it is still my responsibility to inform myself here on romantically conmotated things you shouldn't do in a partnership. So, dear people of Lemmy, what does constitute a romantic moment?
Edit: I've left out some information which seems to be important for the whole picture . I've copied it out of my comment and adding it here:
Me and my gf got together in August of last year, so basically 8 months ago; we were friends for half a year before that. She got cheated on in her long distance relationship before.
The friend who invited me to the sea I actually know for almost as long as my partner, from the beginning of Uni. She had a breakup from a three-year old relationship a few months ago, and I was there to support her. I didn't clarify before though if she was okay with me cuddling with people or not; I assumed it was with her, because it was okay in her LDR before - which was wrong of me. I overstepped the boundaries of my partner here.
The friend in question kissed me at the neck while I was at hers. I talked with her about it and let her know that I wasn't okay with it, to which she reacted quite hurt. She then told me that we shouldn't be friends, but two weeks ago she collapsed at Uni and I brought her home. Now we are meeting again.
While I'm writing this down, I'm actually starting to notice that there are a lot of other factors playing in why my partner is upset here. She has been cheated on in the past, which definitely leads her to feel uncomfortable about my actions, even though I obviously don't want to cheat. I broke a societally unwritten rule of not meeting people in romantically coded settings on your partners birthday. And I overstepped the boundary of my partner before by cuddling with the friend without my partners consent.
Literally anything can be romantic, but watching the sunset on the beach is a prime example of a classic romantic activity, but that does not mean you can't watch a sunset on the beach platonically. What makes a situation romantic is if there is romance. Getting dressed up and going out for dinner for two at a nice restaurant can be romantic or just dinner with a friend at a nice place. Going thrift store shopping can be romantic, or just a fun time with a friend. I would look up some "romantic date ideas" to get a rough idea of romantic themes to inform you better.
Some people expect their partner to make their birthday all about them, that can lessen with age. Not devoting your entire day to your partner on their birthday may be the problem.
If your partner feels there is potential for some sort of romantic involvement with this friend, perceived or real, then you need to talk with them and understand if they know or believe something you don't or if they feel insecure and if there is a lack of trust.
If you didn't tell them what you planned to do, that may be the problem. If you had to ask permission, that isn't healthy in a relationship. Asking them how they feel about you going and making your decision to go, counting their opinion, is wise but understand that you should be able to go do things with your friends and you shouldn't have to ask permission.
If they wanted to go because that sounded like fun and you didn't try to invite them on their birthday, that may be the problem. Just inviting them to come with isn't fair to your friend that wanted to hang out with you and not feel like a 3rd wheel and divide your attention. You can always make plans with your partner on another day and respect the time you have with them and friends.
There are a lot of aspects of this situation that can be why your partner is upset, and it may not be the activity itself. You have to sit down with them and talk to them so you understand their position, they understand your position, and the two of you can come to an understanding and know what may need work in the relationship.
I think this is a big point, especially if your partner has been cheated on in the past. There's a big difference between actively hiding a thing and not telling someone just because it didn't seem relevant or necessary, but manipulators blur that line and it can mean that people who have experienced being cheated on may be hyper vigilant in future relationships.
100%
You can see my other comment to the original commentor for more details. My partner got cheated on in her previous relationship, which definitely plays into here, and I overstepped the boundaries of my partner (and my friend overstepped my boundaries). For that exact reason though I let her know that I was going to the friend and when exactly I plan on going back, so that all people involved could feel safe.
Or you can make plans with your friend on another day. it is generally considered the "socially acceptable" thing to prioritize someone on special days like birthdays. Even if you have only give a bit more priority on someone's birthday, I would think that a partner already has enough extra priority that "I will spend time with only you" is not an unreasonable request. It's also not clear how long OP has been in this relationship. Based on the miscommunications, probably not long. If it's a serious relationship, then giving your partner extra priority sends the message that you find the relationship serious. Otherwise the message is "you are a priority person in my life and this is a priority day for you, but this other person is even higher priority still."
If you ask someone how they feel, and express they would be hurt, but you do the thing anyway, then you are saying that you don't care if you hurt them, and "Well i didnt know it would hurt you" is now a lie. Your options are to either not hurt them (by talking through the situation until it doesn't hurt them, or simply not doing the thing), or hurt them. But if you hurt them willingly, you are the one doing damage to your relationship. If you don't think they are being reasonable, then you may be in a toxic relationship and should end it. If you just don't care about their feelings, then you are definitely in a bad relationship and should end it. Asking isn't about "permission", it is about communicating that you value their input and their feelings.
Life is complicated, so "priority" doesn't mean that something is the only thing that matters but it does mean that it should factor into your decision making.
Hmmm, I understand. I can add some more information about it - let me know if you think it should be included in the main text. I didn't include it because I didn't felt it necessary for the question, but I'm not sure about it anymore.
Me and my gf got together in August of last year, so basically 8 months ago; we were friends for half a year before that. She got cheated on in her long distance relationship before.
The friend who invited me to the sea I actually know for almost as long as my partner, from the beginning of Uni. She had a breakup from a three-year old relationship a few months ago, and I was there to support her. I didn't clarify before though if she was okay with me cuddling with people or not; I assumed it was with her, because it was okay in her LDR before - which was wrong of me. I overstepped the boundaries of my partner here.
The friend in question kissed me at the neck while I was at hers. I talked with her about it and let her know that I wasn't okay with it, to which she reacted quite hurt. She then told me that we shouldn't be friends, but two weeks ago she collapsed at Uni and I brought her home. Now we are meeting again.
While I'm writing this down, I'm actually starting to notice that there are a lot of other factors playing in why my partner is upset here. She has been cheated on in the past, which definitely leads her to feel uncomfortable about my actions, even though I obviously don't want to cheat. I broke a societally unwritten rule of not meeting people in romantically coded settings on your partners birthday. And I overstepped the boundary of my partner before by cuddling with the friend without my partners consent.
Am I the asshole here?
You are in the wrong on many fronts. Including that information in the OP is a good idea so the bigger picture is understood.
Your friend has very clear romantic interest in you and likely has for a while, she doesn't respect your relationship with your girlfriend, and she doesn't want to give up trying to steal you from your girlfriend. Until she can respect your relationship, you should not be alone with her. Even if you didn't consider going to the beach with her a date, she was trying to take you on a date. By trying to be her friend, you are probably leading her on and she probably thinks the attention you are giving her is an indication that you have romantic interest in her that is held back by your current relationship. She probably thinks that being persistent and pushing or overstepping the platonic line will be rewarded. If you have no interest in her, she needs to know that.
Your girlfriend's issues related to being cheated on need to be considered. She should be working on that, but you need to work with her on that by being open and honest to build trust because she doesn't trust you. If she doesn't know the whole story between you and your friend, you need to tell your girlfriend everything. Understand that your girlfriend probably is paranoid that you are going to cheat on her like that other guy and she may constantly be looking for signs that you are or will cheat on her because she probably looked at the last relationship for signs that she missed and is applying that to your relationship. If the two of you don't work on her infidelity concerns, it will drive a wedge between the two of you and lead to the relationship failing even if everything else in the relationship is fantastic. It isn't fair to you for her to suspect you might cheat on her just because some other guy did, but your history with your friend has given your girlfriend plenty of cause to be suspicious of you.
You also should be thinking about what is best for you. There are two women that want to be with you and one might be better than the other, even if that isn't your girlfriend. Staying with the wrong person isn't fair to 3 people.
Thank you for your comment - I appreciate it. I've added my comment to the original description so that the whole picture is visible to other people. Thank you for recommending me to do that; I haven't been sure if that's necessary, so thank you for clarifying that.
I am not sure what exactly to comment or think on you writing that my friend is romantically involved in me. My friend is already in a relationship with another guy, and I think that after her kiss I made it quite clear that I don't want this to happen. To be honest, for me it is totally obvious that you don't go after people who are already in a relationship, so I don't want to interpret her actions in the light of her going after me. I like her and I appreciate our friendship, but why should she be romantically interested in me if she even explicitly said that she doesn't go after people who are in relationships? I just think it is a basic consensus.
But also, to be honest, if I would be my own friend I would also urge myself to caution. My partner has actually asked me before I went to hers and she kissed me if I was sure she wasn't romantically interested in me, to which I replied "yes, she definitely isn't, why should she be?" And when I then talked with my therapist later about it, I realized that she kissed me. So my judgment of people being romantically interested in me definitely isn't good (actually I only noticed my current partner being romantically interested in me when she began calling me "darling" and "love", before that I just thought we are good friends.)
My girlfriend already knows the whole story, and I also know she reads this thread (hi to you btw, u potato); it is very clear to both of us that we talk about this dynamic. I think that she does a good job by sharing her concerns with me, so I don't think she does anything wrong here.
I am not sure what to make of it. It just seems to me completely irresponsible and wrong of my friend if she is romantically interested in me to take actions in that regard when we both are in relationships. I can't really justify to myself seeing her actions in that light, because for me it goes against fundamental moral values I have. But I'm wondering now if I just tell to myself that she isn't romantically interested in me. Either she doesn't get the social cues like me, or she is interested in me. I'm not sure what of these applies though.
I am not trying to be insulting, but I am going to give you my perception of you bluntly. I don't believe that you are socially aware/intelligent enough to see interpret her behaviors to understand her motivations and handle the situation without issues.
If she is equally socially oblivious/ignorant, that complicates matters so much more because neither of you have any clue what the other is doing or thinking, which creates a big grey area that gets so much more messy than just one person being oblivious.
On the worse side is if she is very socially aware and intelligent, doesn't respect your relationship at all, and is wanting to manipulate things in her favor. She may just be with someone just so she isn't alone and he is just keeping her occupied while she waits for you.
People giving statements about their morality should always be taken to have an "unless..." tacked onto their statements. "I would never go after someone in a relationship, unless..." You may be an "unless".
The smart move is to never be alone with her. It sucks losing a friend because they have feelings, but keeping someone in the friend zone without feelings getting hurt or intentions misunderstood is hard enough when you are socially intelligent and aware, basically remote robotic rocket surgery while blindfolded if you aren't.
It is great that your girlfriend and you have an open dialogue about what is going on, that helps her feel more trusting of you and helps build confidence in the relationship and your fidelity. Talk with her and ask her what you should do about your friend.
I know I wouldn't be comfortable with my socially inept and oblivious girlfriend spending time with a guy who has made a move on her before and invited her to romantic activities alone on my birthday, but at the same time I would struggle with asking her to stop being friends with him. I would want them to stop being friends because I am insecure and have been cheated on and feel threatened by their friendship for fairly valid reasons.
Got it. Thank you for your comment - I honestly am grateful for it. It is good room for thought, and I'll think on that and talk to my partner and therapist about this. I'm sure they'll have additional thoughts on how to move forward.
I especially appreciate you telling me directly what you think. It helps me a lot.
Have a nice time!
So this is actually really important context OP. If you've "overstepped" with this friend before then your GF may already feel a bit cheated on. For you to leave her birthday to specifically meet this particular friend given your background info? That's a pretty devastating blow to the trust in your relationship.
There is no socially acceptable way to tell your GF "I needed a break from you , on your birthday, so I went to hang out with a woman actively trying to get me to cheat on you with her." Because it definitely sounds like thats what this friend was trying to do, if she's allistic there is no world in which she wasn't trying to take you on a date. (I understand meeting your friend wasn't preplanned, that matters very little here.)
Honestly OP I know you said in another comment that it hurt you that your GFs friends told her to break up with you but I'm seriously surprised she didn't. This is gonna sound mean but I really just want to be as clear as possible, so I appologize for how blunt and rude Im gonna be in this next part. I just want to make sure you understand whats likely happening in you GFs social circle. Full disclosure, if I had the information from these comments and was your GFs friend I would be telling her, "He cheated on you on your birthday, and he'll do it again. You need to break up with him. He doesnt care about you. Hes more into his friend." And I'd be repeating it to her every single time you saw this particular friend. It's wild to me that you're not single right now. I don't know of a single allistic person who would read this story, with the added context, and not assume youre at least trying to cheat on your girlfriend. If you want this to have a chance with your GF given her history of being cheated on then you may need to put this friendship on the backburner.
On the flip side, it does sound like you might care more about this friend than your girlfriend. Given the sexual orientations that you've outlined elsewhere have you considered dating this friend instead of your GF? All three of you might be happier? Just food for thought.
Thank you for your comment - I appreciate your input. And also thank you for letting me know about the blunt part - I think it was important that you wrote it down like that. Sometimes you just need to tell things in a clear way.
I've added the context to my original post. It is very interesting that you called me out that my gf already feels cheated on - it hasn't appeared like that to me, but thinking about it now makes more sense. I think I would also feel at least overstepped if my partner would meet another person and cuddle without my consent. That already creates an emotional background, so to speak.
I already mentioned in another comment that it is very difficult for me to imagine my friend trying to get me to cheat on my gf. It just absolutely doesn't make sense to me why she would try to do that. You also mention a good point - given our past and her kiss, it is necessary for me to make sure she understand that I am not interested in her. While I don't think going to the sea is per se bad, and my gf even said she would judge it differently if I went to the sea with another person or with this specific friend on another day, it is my responsibility here to make sure to set boundaries here. Going to the sea in the evening on the birthday of my girlfriend isn't really a boundary in that regard, is it?
And I also understand your point that you'd ask my gf (if you were her friend) if I'm trying to cheat on her. I think if I'd judge my behavior from the outside, I'd find it at least strange. While for me as an actor here my actions make total and complete sense, I also understand now why the friends of my gf told her that I'm at least trying to cheat on her.
I'm feeling unsure of what to do next. On one hand, it is important that I'm there for my friend - she is not doing well rn at all, and I'm seriously concerned about her physical safety. Events like these, where we go to to the sea, really help her. But also I see the need to draw boundaries for my and my gf's sake and make my gf feel safe. And I also need to make sure she is doing well.
I care about both of these people, albeit for different reasons. I'm now starting to get concerned about myself, because it just seems like a really difficult dynamic to handle. It helps me to realize that my gf has reason to be upset with my actions and be hurt by them - I clearly breached societal code. I acted in the best way I could, because I care about both people - but what I've done wasn't good.
Thank you for your input. I sincerely appreciate it.
I'll leave you with this OP, you need to have a discussion with your GF about where the line is for both of you with how much you are prioritizing this particular friend especially given the background. Even more so since your GF has been cheated on before.
The fact that you are prioritizing your friend after already crossing the line with her multiple times, and failing to set even a single reasonable boundary, would be a massive red flag for me. Actions speak louder than words. Think about what actions your GF is seeing, that will matter more than you just telling her you "love" her. Your actions are also leading on your friend and indicating (to her and multiple people even in this thread) that you are open to a romantic relationship with her.
I'm a bit older and would have no patience for how much more care and consideration youre showing this friend than your GF consistently. Your girlfriend sounds like she's far more forgiving of infidelity in a partner than I would be, so she may be OK with still being in a relationship with you while you continue to prioritize someone whose shown a great deal of disrespect for her and your relationship. How your relationship works with this friendship is something you two should probably discuss explicitly.
If OPs GF is really reading this: you deserve someone who will prioritize you over their affair partner.
Best of luck to you both.
Thank you - I appreciate your input. I'll also share your comment with my partner, in case she hasn't followed up this thread. I'll think about your words.