this post was submitted on 28 May 2024
509 points (97.0% liked)
Political Memes
5292 readers
2738 users here now
Welcome to politcal memes!
These are our rules:
Be civil
Jokes are okay, but don’t intentionally harass or disturb any member of our community. Sexism, racism and bigotry are not allowed. Good faith argumentation only. No posts discouraging people to vote or shaming people for voting.
No misinformation
Don’t post any intentional misinformation. When asked by mods, provide sources for any claims you make.
Posts should be memes
Random pictures do not qualify as memes. Relevance to politics is required.
No bots, spam or self-promotion
Follow instance rules, ask for your bot to be allowed on this community.
founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
view the rest of the comments
I can dig it. But you’re talking about party and I’m talking about policy.
The dems have a habit of snatching defeat from the jaws of victory. But that’s separate from lying the country into multiple wars. It’s separate from the history of conservatism that existed for decades. It’s separate from the “tea party” and all the dirty money that ever gave libertarians air time in the first place.
Libertarianism is an argument begging for validity without any actual civil accomplishments it can point to. Dems can point to the civil rights movement and conservatism point against it. So where do you point? You can keep saying how shitty dems are at getting elected. My response is how shitty libertarians are when they’re in office.
That's totally fair. I'll fully concede a huge part of why libertarians have a great track record on principles is because they've never BEEN in a position to compromise on them.
But you ask about track record, you mention multiple wars, you could have mentioned a ton of other things dem shot their foot off at...
We need more than two parties. Desperately. We don't have it so it's not worth talking about, but it doesn't change the need. But at the end of the day, the thing I can never get past, despite agreeing with dems on a huge number of things, is there's no guiding principle.
Libertarian NAP has a boatload of issues... But it's a starting point to be worked from that supercedes the party. It's incomprehensible to me running a cantidate who voted to get us into those wars, who opposed gay marriage, and we haven't even gotten to Biden yet.
Again, there is no choice in 2024. But the democratic party is entirely without principle. There is no way to shift it internally because it has no internal framework that lasts. I pray to a God I don't belive in it gets us through, but it also got us into this mess and for that it should go.
You talk about dems shooting their foot off. I’m talking about conservatives shooting the face off the country. Libertarians don’t offer a better direction compared to “bomb bomb bomb Iran” they are Lee Atwater let off the chain. Libertarianism is just conservatism let loose there is a chain of rhetoric linking this all to terrible actions.
This is a way better conversation than I was anticipating and let's take a minute to agree on the fact that shits fucked, we'd like it unfucked, and at least short term there's only one way to make that happen.
The view for most of libertarians I get along with would be that no, conservatives didn't blow THEIR face off... They blew OUR face off, like all of us.
Long term, there's a ton to disagree on, but dems are going to need to take friends where they can get them. There are a ton of situations that further both interests that are low hanging fruits, but it's important to acknowledge that, because the party has a lot to answer for.
Again, I cannot wait for the day we're haggling about details. But the dems have entirely lost relevance, save the fact that, somehow, they're our only hope against literal fascism. And Im just going to say it again because election interference is a thing: Joe Biden needs to win this election. But AOC is going to need to make some friends that will feel odd to the party.