911
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
view the rest of the comments
this post was submitted on 06 Jun 2024
911 points (97.8% liked)
Technology
55610 readers
3751 users here now
This is a most excellent place for technology news and articles.
Our Rules
- Follow the lemmy.world rules.
- Only tech related content.
- Be excellent to each another!
- Mod approved content bots can post up to 10 articles per day.
- Threads asking for personal tech support may be deleted.
- Politics threads may be removed.
- No memes allowed as posts, OK to post as comments.
- Only approved bots from the list below, to ask if your bot can be added please contact us.
- Check for duplicates before posting, duplicates may be removed
Approved Bots
founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
How so? A Samsung or pixel with default settings would also behave that way, possibly even more securely because it wouldn't show the thieves your number.
I guess just anecdotally. I have a pixel 7, I'm pretty confident I could factory reset the device without 3rd party authentication. Also, from the tech channels I follow, I think I could recover my data if I forgot the password. Android has always felt more "free"and customizable, and I love it for that. But I also think that freedom allows for more exploits. It's a trade off that's worth it to me, personally. But if I had illegal shit to hide on my phone, I'd probably do it on an apple device.
Edit: just checked. I can completely bypass all my locked down Google Pixel settings to factory reset my phone pretty easily if I press the right keys in the right order. It would be pretty easy to steal and resell my phone.
If you do it the manual way - not unlocking the phone and doing it through settings - you can wipe it sure, but when you try to set it up it requires the prior Google account credentials to proceed. No creds, no passing go, just a shiny brick. It's been like that for years.
Also might I recommend you take a gander at GrapheneOS for more intense security capabilities than stock.
Not sure about the latest Android version, but I managed to unlock and bypass a phone which had factory reset protection, and as far as I know a lot of vendors like Samsung have their own exploit available.
Using this you can manage to get to the settings app (while still locked, waiting for the previous owners google account) and remove the account, add your own or disable the security.
Done!
You can factory reset it easily. You can't use it without the previous Google account credentials afterwards. You can't reuse a stolen Pixel which has Google account logged into it.
Ding ding ding, I can confirm this. I thought it was for all devices, but I guess not.
For what it's worth, they're trying to fix that with Android 15. Not sure if this is one of the features they'll also be back porting to older phones too like this article briefly touches on, but either way it sounds like if you factory reset the phone, it can't be set up again unless they know your login: https://www.wired.com/story/android-15-theft-detection-lock/
Doesn't that already exist as the Factory Reset Protection (FRP) partition?
Yeah, I've had to wipe pixel devices the dirty way and it prompts (requires) your credentials to continue. Maybe it's a pixel exclusive, and others are getting it via a15?
No, its not exclusive. But FRP can be bypassed if you know the right tools.
Honestly not too familiar with that. I imagine if they're touting this as a new thing, FRP either does something different or was lacking compared to this in some way.
Though it is Google, they could have just killed FRP in favor of this and added messaging features like they do with everything else
Mind to share what "Keys in the right order" are? I mean a link, of course, because in my experience you just can't do that with a locked bootloader.
AFAIK you can't wipe the IMEI and if you report it stolen to providers they will block it from using their networks. (It will only be able to use wifi.)
Im pretty sure u cant fuck with a device that has a locked bootloader without unlocking said bootloader which requires u know the password. And u definatly cant recover data without passcode unless u can extract the hash from whatever chip holds it (shouldn't be possible if u have a tpm) and bruteforce it. Ur data should be encrypted and u shouldn't be able to tamper with os without unlocking bootloader which once unlocked will wipe all device data. Might be possible if u do some dodgy power injection directly into some of the chips but thats pretty advanced stuff.
The encryption on Android devices is pretty strong, as long as you use a good screen lock you should be fine. Yes they can reset you phone, but accessing your data is a whole other level.
If I had illegal shit on my phone, I wouldn't send it to apple servers by using an iPhone. They are the first who would comply with a surpena. I'd use GrapheneOS on a Pixel and use an obvious duress pin like 1234. If entered it wipes your encryption keys and avoids restoring your data.
And if it gets stolen, it is gone and I'd get a new one. This is the cost of having proper opsec.
Edit:
This is a common misconception called security through obscurity
Does it have to be a specific version Pixel? Just any Pixel?
Any of them still receiving security updates would be fine.
Same for Samsung afaik. Pop into the bootloader and just wipe everything.
AFAIK you can't wipe the IMEI and if you report it stolen to providers they will block it from using their networks. (It will only be able to use wifi.)
If recently upgraded an old Samsung tablet (Tab A6 from 2016) to Lineage OS and not only do you have to remove the Google Account before flashing just the TWRP to be able to just start replacing the actual OS, but there is a configuration flag that can only be changed in the stock OS logged in to that Google Account and with Dev Mode enabled to, after you replace the OS, allow the custom OS to actually work (if you don't do it the device with the custom OS will go into a boot fail loop as soon as you restart it).
It was actually a PITA to do that upgrade of my own device because of that (I had to reinstall the old OS and log in to the old account just to toggle the "Allow OEM install" option after which I could install Lineage OS ... again ... without the device going into a boot fail loop on the first restart)
This is on a Samsung device that's almost 8 years old so it would be a bit strange if they went back on it since, especially as it's in the best interest of Samsung to make it hard for people to upgrade their devices away from the enshittified Samsung software.
As everyone is pointing out you're just wrong about this.
Also apple is overbearing AF. I recently had several back and forths with my IT department about an old company mac laptop I used to have. Since I had signed into my apple account once, Apple permanently tied that laptop to my account and wouldn't allow the fucking IT department to fully wipe it.
Keep in mind also that I would have preferred to not have or use an apple account (they kind of force it on you, even asking you to login to iCloud constantly even if you've literally never used it once), and even though I could login to the apple account in my browser and see that the laptop wasn't listed under my devices, IT was still locked out.
Literally the only way to fix this was giving the IT dept my apple password so they could authenticate then sign out of it. There was nothing I could do remotely about it. This is a security issue in itself. Zero reason I shouldn't be able to use my account remotely to remove or sign that device out. Zero reason I should have to give my password to another human. Except for apple being shit.
The apple security theater is widely believed but it's still largely theater.
Edit: before you tell me I didn't have to give up my password, understand that I fucking know that. I could've driven to the office, told my employer to fuck off, had them ship the laptop, etc... all of which are things that shouldn't be necessary. I took the least shitty option at the time. Kindly fuck off if you are so dicksloppery on apple that you can't understand the obvious point: pretending every shit decision is about security doesn't shield you from all criticism.
Your post details how it isn’t possible for IT professionals to wipe a Mac without the consent of the owner’s account. How is that security theater?
IT was the owner and obviously consented to their own actions.
You didn't read the post.
You pretty much MUST use paid mobile device management tools to set up and administer company owned Apple hardware, and those tools are notoriously annoying and often just bad
MDM would have been used regardless of OS.
It's more about the fact that they didn't have a webpage in their apple account where they could remotely log out, and the IT department had the physical computer so they had to either move to the department or give the department their personal password, which is bogus. Being able to remotely log out of the computer doesn't seem to be that big of an ask.
I get thay the computer should remain locked if there's no internet, but once the computer gain connectivity it should unlock if it was logged out in the user page.
I see what you’re saying. I agree that users should be able to remove device locks remotely. You can with iPhones. Hopefully that moves to all devices.
I still prefer this to not having the lock at all.
You missed the part where I had to give my password to another human.
Also, I wasn't the owner, they are. Also, again, it makes zero sense to not allow me to sign it out remotely.
Nothing is secure about a system designed so poorly you have to give out your password. That should never be needed.
Not to mention, I never wanted or needed to sign in. I was just nagged to do so 100 times so I relented. Nothing about that means I own the device.
I'm with you that you should be able to log out remotely, but this is more of a failure in the IT department. You should have been given a PC with the apple ID already introduced, with your company mail and some password. How would they even access your PC remotely for security udpwtes if they didn't have access to your appeal id? Right, they didn't. So they gave a computer they didn't have remote access to, not properly configured, and then forced you to either move or give private information.
You are absolutely incorrect. They had remote access and I watched them use it in various ways. When troubleshooting issues they would login and move my mouse and use a virtual keyboard. They could install software remotely on a schedule.
Not sure why you're under the impression that an apple account is required for remote management. There's probably >5 different popular third party software solutions for that
The apple sign in is an extraneous unneeded piece that once they annoy you into it, it then becomes considered a sign of ownership, which I never considered, because why would I?
You are right that IT should've had a way of dealing with it better, but in their defense this may have been an anti-feature (asking a user to login to iCloud, a service they've never used once, is not a feature) added in an update, after they issued the laptop. It's a small company, so I don't fault them on it as much as the trillion dollar company with the goal of inflating their iCloud metrics by forcing users to login to it.
Oh, I assumed that you would be forced to type your password or have enough rights to install stuff in a computer, be it in person or remotely, so I assumed that whatever 3rd party program they used required to have enough access, and that apple would use the apple id as a master password, given that it's what is being used to lock down the device itself.
Well, yet another issue with apple lol, why add a ownership id if it's not even what gives root access. Lmao.
Nah the iCloud crap is literally just another account. Up until the moment you login to it, then it silently ties the device to that account for "security" purposes. I kept emailing the IT guy back saying I don't know what I can do, I can see a list of devices here and that laptop has been removed from it.
After him asking me for help repeatedly I felt I had to just give up, give him the password on a slack call, then immediately reset it once he'd done what he needed.
Apple issue then, quite the anti feature. In any case, I hope the IT team learns from it and they create a company ID or several company IDs so this doesn't happen again haha.
You couldn’t remote in to type in your password?
I get this as being a bit of a hurdle, but wouldn't a good option in hind sight be to create a separate work related apple account based on your work email? I've done that in the past with various companies for iPhones and MacBooks. Makes it cleaner to return the device and doesn't compromise my personal account should they ultimately need my credentials on the non-owned-by-me device.
iPhones don’t do that on their own.
She said she activated lost mode, so it’s possible/likely she made her contact info available. Asking Siri who the phone belongs to will also give up contact info, but you can change that remotely from the find my phone app.
I think - being a writer - she sort of set herself up for the interaction so she would have material. No judgment, though. It was an interesting read.
You can fairly easily factory reset phones from both. While you can report your phone as stolen and the IMEI will be blacklisted on US carriers, it would probably work fine abroad.
For iPhones, if you have Find My turned on, you can’t activate the device without the iCloud password, unless the owner removes the device from their iCloud account. Which is what the scammers are trying to get her to do here.
Sorry. When I said "both," I meant Google and Samsung. Apple definitely has better security, ocassionally to an annoying extent.
As far as I know factory resetting an android phone is relatively easy without having access to the device. But it's been a while since I've looked I hti that.