this post was submitted on 14 Jul 2024
198 points (97.1% liked)
Palestine
1013 readers
81 users here now
A community for everything related to Palestine and the occupation currently underway by the occupying force known as Israel.
Anti-Zionism is not anti-Semitism. Existence is resistance for Palestinians.
Please refer to Israel as Occupied Palestine, or occupied territories. The IDF is a fascist and ethnonationalist occupying force. Israelis are settlers. We understand however that the imperial narrative (which tries to legitimise Israel) is internalised in the imperial core and slip-ups are naturally expected.
We always take the sides of Palestine and Palestinians and are unapologetic about it. Israel is an occupying power whose "defence force"'s (note the contradiction) sole purpose for existing is to push Palestinians out so they can resettle their rightful land. If you have anything positive to say about Israel we do not care.
founded 3 years ago
MODERATORS
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
view the rest of the comments
No. Whataboutism is when you make an unrelated comparison. Bush II started the Iraq War.. But what about Obama wearing a tan suit?? My point is that under Republican leadership the situation would likely be worse.
Obama is a war criminal who brought open air slave markets to Libya.
That you can't even use a good example shows how bad-faith your arguments are. No one gives a shit what crappy suit Obama did or didn't wear.
Bush II started the Iraq War- and Obama started the west's still-ongoing crusade against Syria, catalyzed the regional destabilization of his predecessors to the extent a literal terrorist-state (ISIS) came to existence, and turned Africa's most prosperous country into hell-on-earth with open-air slave markets.
So really now, what is the difference? Evil white imperialist, vs. evil token black imperialist spokesperson for the empire, I suppose one of them at least says nice things about the LGBT community... I'm sure the gays in Syria were grateful even as they were being tossed off of buildings by daesh, or as they were facing civil war and the targeted destruction of water infrastructure in Libya.
Same with Obama, Trump, and Biden. The ICE camps never changed (and didn't start with Trump), the drone strikes never changed, the genocidal sanctions, militarism, systemic destabilization and support of terrorists across the globe, and the natural progress of capitalism further and further into its later stages (neoliberalism) as the contradictions continued setting in, none of it ever changed. The only meaningful difference is that Trump is worse at the optics, and perhaps isn't slobbering at the bit to start WW3... so if anything, while all three are genocidaires, war criminals of the highest order, and thoroughly corrupt capitalists- Trump is probably the preferable choice, not that anyone halfways decent should even think of supporting any of these monsters.
You made my point for me. The example I gave with Bush/Obama was whataboutism intentionally to show how invalid it can be. My original point still stands. If the meme had a US flag then it'd have been more accurate. But it was specifically blaming Democrats even though congressional funding is ultimately what funds Israel.
Well, if they're just all figureheads (by and large they are), then what does it matter if it's Blue Hitler or Orange Goebbels? And are we going to pretend party politics (for all that the two-party monopoly is a farce in and of itself) mean the poor widdle Democrats have no influence on congress, or that they have no extensive track record of support of Zionism and all other sorts of fascistic and imperialist ventures, same as the Republicans? The pathetic excuse you give for your beloved Blue Nazi party falls flat on its face. Blue Nazi, Red Nazi, take your Nazis and go home, no one here's interested nor braindead enough to fall for your schtick.
Sounds like you prefer to have Trump in office. That'll make things better for Palestine, I'm sure.
Why yes actually, I would prefer Trump (though I don't support him and don't think anyone should) over Biden. And no, I don't think things would significantly change for Palestine, at least not due to a second Trump term- but at least, I view a Trump presidency as marginally less likely to start WW3 (only marginally because by-and-large POTUSes are figureheads), meaningfully less effective at rallying the rest of the west to the US' fascist coalitions, and considerably less effective at manufacturing consent- in the imperial cores and beyond- for the fascist policies that both parties- and indeed, the entire US political establishment- are so dedicated to.
Biden and the DNC are the more dangerous, deranged, unified face of fascism as I see it by almost every metric. Though no one should be supporting Goebbels over Hitler, or vice-versa.
Thanks for showing your true nazi colors
Interesting, only one of the two of us supports genocide and the imperialist regime. Who exactly is the Nazi here?
This is all liberals have isn't it? They literally support a genocide and their last line of defence against their own amorality is "Umm acktually you guys are just as bad as nazis for opposing a genocide with actions instead of just empty words."
I think one of the elements you're missing here is that not even "liberals" expect any meaningful condemnation of violence from the right. It is specifically the democrats who veil themselves in progressive language and claim to support human rights and oppose war all the while committing genocide. This meme correctly identifies the chauvinistic hypocrisy of the democrats.
Stfu 🤓
According to Wikipedia: "Whataboutism or whataboutery (as in "what about....?") is a pejorative for the strategy of responding to an accusation with a counter-accusation instead of a defense against the original accusation."
...doesn't address the original argument.
I think your original comment works to point out that Republicans wouldn't have a foot to stand on if they were to criticise Democrats for being pro-genocide, but it's not a proper defence of Democrats being pro-genocide or hypocritical.
It wasn't meant as a defense of Democrats, but rather to show that it is a US government problem. Singling out Democrats is disingenuous.