this post was submitted on 28 Jul 2024
475 points (94.9% liked)

Cool Guides

4559 readers
2 users here now

Rules for Posting Guides on Our Community

1. Defining a Guide Guides are comprehensive reference materials, how-tos, or comparison tables. A guide must be well-organized both in content and layout. Information should be easily accessible without unnecessary navigation. Guides can include flowcharts, step-by-step instructions, or visual references that compare different elements side by side.

2. Infographic Guidelines Infographics are permitted if they are educational and informative. They should aim to convey complex information visually and clearly. However, infographics that primarily serve as visual essays without structured guidance will be subject to removal.

3. Grey Area Moderators may use discretion when deciding to remove posts. If in doubt, message us or use downvotes for content you find inappropriate.

4. Source Attribution If you know the original source of a guide, share it in the comments to credit the creators.

5. Diverse Content To keep our community engaging, avoid saturating the feed with similar topics. Excessive posts on a single topic may be moderated to maintain diversity.

6. Verify in Comments Always check the comments for additional insights or corrections. Moderators rely on community expertise for accuracy.

Community Guidelines

By following these rules, we can maintain a diverse and informative community. If you have any questions or concerns, feel free to reach out to the moderators. Thank you for contributing responsibly!

founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
[–] ICastFist@programming.dev 6 points 1 month ago (1 children)

Good advocate. Anyway, "God not stopping evil, maybe he don’t because it go against free will" - That enters the loop at the bottom. Could God create a universe where free will exists, but evil does not exist? If yes, then why didn't He? If He could not create such a universe, then he's not all powerful and/or not all loving and good.

"About the not loving, he promises a perfect infinity world after all of this" - Then why do we have to go through this initial, temporary and imperfect part?

[–] Hammocks4All@lemmy.ml -1 points 1 month ago (3 children)

Maybe free will requires the infinite complexity of this world and hence must also contain “evil” in some way.

[–] kmaismith@lemm.ee 3 points 1 month ago

Then god is not all powerful

[–] ICastFist@programming.dev 2 points 1 month ago (1 children)

That's trying to sidestep the answer, but it just loops back: could God create an "infinitely complex" world with free will where evil does not need to exist? I'm effectively asking the same question, "could God create a universe with free will and without evil"?

Assuming that your assertion is true, that the infinite complexity of this world must contain evil, then God is not all powerful nor all loving.

[–] Hammocks4All@lemmy.ml 0 points 1 month ago (2 children)

I dunno. To be all powerful does God need to be able to create paradoxes? Things that are and aren’t? I think that by limiting choices, free will is no longer fully free.

The all loving part I think gets resolved by the free will idea, too — he’s not going to step in and be a nanny.

I’m not really advocating for some biblical God, btw. Though, admittedly, I am spiritual in different senses which might overlap with the biblical God in some ways.

[–] ICastFist@programming.dev 1 points 1 month ago

To be all powerful does God need to be able to create paradoxes?

To be all powerful means you literally create all the rules, including any that might lead to paradoxes, or being able to create a set of rules that lead to no paradoxes, ever.

The all loving part I think gets resolved by the free will idea, too — he’s not going to step in and be a nanny.

Again, he creates the rules, the "state machine". If we humans can reach a "failed" (evil) state, it's only because it's an option that has been created.

Also, free will automatically breaks either god's omniscience (and omnipotence) or being all-loving. If god knows everything that will ever happen, free will cannot exist except as an illusion, for everything is already predetermined. If free will exists, well, then we can safely imply that god is not all powerful, for god cannot predict our decisions.

[–] flerp@lemm.ee -1 points 1 month ago (1 children)

Choices are already limited... by our brains. Some people choose to stick objects up their urethra. Based on statistical probability, I would guess you do not. Does the fact that your brain limits you from making that choice mean your will is not free? You didn't choose which brain you would get. Or are you going to go stick something up there to prove how free you are?

[–] Hammocks4All@lemmy.ml 1 points 1 month ago

Don't appreciate (i) your disgusting example and (ii) your attitude. Most of this is obviously amounting to different interpretations of "free will" and even "omnipotence." Ok, if it's free with no limitations, you win, buddy. If it's free will in the sense that, well, obviously, there are constraints, but it is precisely those constraints that give rise to different wants, desires, actions, and pursuits, and there is freedom to choose them, then ok, there might be free will. In any case, free will is vague and not precisely defined. Similarly, does omnipotence entail the ability of creating something outside of yourself? If no, then ok, the paradox stands. If not, then the paradox doesn't.

[–] Mrs_deWinter@feddit.org 1 points 1 month ago

Then in paradise there won't be free will either, or evil will prevail there as well.