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submitted 8 months ago by jackmarxist@lemmy.ml to c/worldnews@lemmy.ml

Due to the severity of the situation and the fast flowing news cycle, we have decided to create a general megathread for discussion regarding the conflict.

Informal/Satirical news sources are not allowed on the main feed of the community but you are free to post them in this thread.

Please remember that all community and instance rules apply to this thread hence keep is civil.

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[-] HMH@lemmy.ml 214 points 8 months ago

Some facts about the Gaza Strip:

  • Population: ~2.3 Million
  • Area: 365 km² (141 sq mi)
    • 41 km (25 mi) long, from 6 to 12 km (3.7 to 7.5 mi) wide
  • Population density: ~6300/km² 1

Gaza is very densely populated. In Gaza live as many people as in Houston. But Houston has an area of 1658.6 km² (640.4 sq mi). Thus Gaza has nearly five times the population density of Houston. New York City is the only city in the US with a population of more than a million and a higher population density than Gaza. 2 The tallest building in Palestine stands at 76.1 m (255 ft). 3

A little less than half of the population of Gaza is made up of children. 4

There are only three ("legal") ways in and out of Gaza:

  • Rafah Crossing into Egypt in the south
  • Kerem Shalom Crossing into Israel in the south
  • Erez Crossing into Israel in the north

Gaza has a very small port. It can only be used by small fisher boats. 5

Israel built a wall and fences around Gaza. 6

[-] queermunist@lemmy.ml 86 points 8 months ago

Water runs out at United Nations shelters in Gaza

Israel has cut off the flow of food, medicine, water and electricity to Gaza, pounded neighborhoods with airstrikes and told the estimated 1 million residents of the north to flee south ahead of Israel’s planned attack. The Gaza Health Ministry said more than 2,300 Palestinians have been killed since the fighting erupted last weekend.

U.S. national security adviser Jake Sullivan told CNN on Sunday that Israeli officials told him they had turned the water back on in southern Gaza. But the spokesman for Israel’s energy and water ministry, Adir Dahan, said it was only flowing at a single location in southern Gaza. Aid workers in Gaza said they had not yet seen evidence the water was back and a Gaza government spokesperson said it was not flowing.

Hmm! Why would the US spread Israeli misinformation? It's a mystery! 🙃

About half a million Gaza residents have taken refuge in U.N. shelters across the territory and are running out of water, said Juliette Touma, a spokesperson for the U.N.’s Palestinian refugee agency, known by the acronym UNRWA. “Gaza is running dry,” she said, adding that U.N. teams have also begun to ration water.

Touma said a quarter of a million people in Gaza moved to shelters over the past 24 hours, the majority of which are U.N. schools where “clean water has actually run out,” said Inas Hamdan, another UNRWA spokeswoman.

Across Gaza, families rationed dwindling water supplies, with many forced to drink dirty or brackish water. Many resorted to going to dirty wells and the sea, increasing the risk of dehydration, water borne diseases and more deaths.

“I am very happy that I was able to brush my teeth today, can you imagine what lengths we have reached?” said Shaima al-Farra, in Khan Younis.

Settlers are sick.

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[-] AssortedBiscuits@hexbear.net 78 points 8 months ago
[-] masquenox@lemmy.ml 28 points 8 months ago

That and the outright censorship you see escalating all over the western world points to one thing - the massive failure of the western propaganda model itself.

[-] nohaybanda@hexbear.net 23 points 8 months ago

Only Democracy* in the Middle East, bby!


*Rules and conditions may apply.

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[-] zerfuffle@lemmy.ml 75 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago)

IDF misinformation from the start of the conflict until now:

1. Hamas beheaded forty babies

Context: the reports of Hamas beheading babies came from an interview by i24 News of an IDF commander. This quickly spread through Western media outlets such as CNN, NBC, MSNBC, FOX News, the Telegraph, Daily Mail, etc. I haven't done a comprehensive sweep of who picked up the story and who didn't (and of course now it's much harder to do so because of retractions, edits, my lack of direct TV access, and SEO), but from what I can tell AP News and Al Jazeera have been relatively reliable.

Lack of evidence: 6 days ago, Anadolu (Turkish state-owned media) reported that: Israeli army says it does not have 'confirmation' about allegations that ‘Hamas beheaded babies’. This was later confirmed by other sources.

Misinformation: 5 days ago, Biden stated "I never really thought that I would see, have confirmed, pictures of terrorists beheading children,” said Biden, who described Saturday’s attack as the “deadliest day for Jews since the Holocaust”. The White House later posted a retraction of this claim: "A White House spokesperson later clarified that US officials and the president have not seen pictures or confirmed such reports independently,” The Post reported on Wednesday.

2. Shani Louk, claimed to be naked, dead, and sexually assaulted

Context: images circulated online about a video purporting to show Shani Louk, a German national attending the Nova EDM festival, on the back of a truck, face-down. Claims that she appeared to be naked, dead, and sexually assaulted circulated on the same media sources discussed above.

Misinformation: given the videos we have, we know with a decent amount of certainty that the video being shown is of Shani Louk. However:

A. She's clearly not naked in the video and you can see that she is wearing black shorts as well as boots. A top is also visible (but she is face-down, so we can't see much of it). Neither her shorts nor her boots appeared to have been removed. From what I can tell, she was initially wearing a long skirt that was likely lost in the chaos.

B. Her family claims that she is alive and receiving medical attention at a hospital in Gaza, which does explain why they would be transporting her. There is visible blood on the back of her head, but she does not seem to be bleeding profusely when the video was taken.

C. I will not comment on whether or not she was sexually assaulted.

3. 260 dead Israelis at EDM festival

Context: many news sources independently verified that 260 bodies were pulled from the EDM festival. Many sources reported that this was an act of terror with no strategic objective and a massacre of innocent civilians.

Lack of context: Nova was held in Kibbutz Re'im, mere minutes from Gaza, and also mere minutes from the IDF Gaza Division's Re'im base. Tanks are clearly visible in videos leaving the festival, as are armed personnel. Hebrew-language interviews of released prisoners are providing more insight into these attacks, but I do not speak Hebrew so I will refrain from commenting on this further. Hamas has claimed that fighters were told to avoid harming or killing civilians.

Potential misinformation: Hamas claiming that fighters were told to avoid harming civilians does not mean that Hamas fighters did not harm civilians, obviously.

Potential misinformation: the reports indicate that 260 bodies were found, but their origin has not been confirmed. We know that armed personnel discharged their weapons against Hamas fighters (and vice-versa). How many of the dead are civilians, IDF, armed security, or Hamas?

Much of the media coverage on this conflict has been used to spread misinformation, even from traditionally "reliable" sources in the Western sphere. As a result, I would strongly recommend supplementing coverage of these events with those outside the Western sphere. The journalism being done is lazy.

[-] GivingEuropeASpook@lemm.ee 22 points 8 months ago

The impression I had gotten from interviews (Al Jazeera, the Guardian, Haaretz) was that Israeli civilian police were there and exchanged fire with Hamas but that it was HOURS before they came across any IDF personnel. I've been focusing on this less as the time goes on and the catastrophic situation in Gaza gets worse and worse, so maybe further sources have come out regarding the Nova Festival.

Regardless I would like to see consequences to the people who authorized a festival so close to Gaza in the first place...

[-] zerfuffle@lemmy.ml 26 points 8 months ago

That's the part that really doesn't make sense to me.

There's literally an active military base RIGHT THERE. It's literally based in Re'im. There's no way the IDF could be that incompetent. It's not like forces had to be deployed from elsewhere in the country.

Supposedly, they had another location in mind but it fell through so they had to use Re'im with two days notice.

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[-] doctorcrimson 70 points 8 months ago

Seems like a mistake to place the danger zone on that side of the Kerem Shalom goods crossing, but then again they left that moron Netanyahu in charge so I'm sure that's no mistake.

I heard Egypt actually warned Israel of the exact date of the initial attack and Israel still failed to react, it becomes harder every day to think this whole war wasn't the intention of Israel leadership.

[-] OsrsNeedsF2P@lemmy.ml 20 points 8 months ago

The likelihood Israel didn't know of the attack shrinks by the day.

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[-] muad_dibber@lemmygrad.ml 58 points 8 months ago

Mandatory watching for those interested in the history of the conflict: How Palestine became colonized.

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[-] AOCapitulator@hexbear.net 58 points 8 months ago

Israel is doing a genocide, the us and its puppets are funding or arming the genociders, and Europe is banning protests of the genocide.

Western capitalist hegemony is a fascistic death cult that will destroy us all unless we destroy it first, and every day we don’t millions are condemned to horrific deaths

[-] cosecantphi@hexbear.net 23 points 8 months ago

I really wish I could have a permanent record of everything every liberal has ever said so I could easily demonstrate how full of shit they are in 10 to 20 years when they all collectively deny ever having supported Israel through the Palestinian genocide.

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[-] zerfuffle@lemmy.ml 54 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago)

US tells 2,000 troops to be prepared to DEPLOY to the Middle East as second aircraft carrier is moved to the Mediterranean and Israel's ground invasion of Gaza nears

I love when the US helps to deescalate a situation! I'm sure no US troops will be hit by any strikes to justify direct US intervention in this conflict.

The US is going to push us straight into a world war with their mismanagement of this conflict.

[-] ferristriangle@hexbear.net 41 points 8 months ago

mismanagement

When talking about the US, it's more often correct to assume malice rather than incompetence

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[-] blackn1ght@feddit.uk 24 points 8 months ago

What fucking help does Israel need for fucks sake.

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[-] InevitableSwing@hexbear.net 54 points 8 months ago

MSNBC had this doctor on to talk about the horrible situation in Gaza.

3 years ago, MedGlobal was born - MedGlobal

By Dr. Zaher Sahloul, MedGlobal President and Co-Founder

Three years ago, I was in Yemen with three other medical volunteers, providing internal medicine and pediatrics services to people suffering from the effects of war and famine. MedGlobal had just been formed. In between medical consultations, we talked about the goals for the future of our organization, dedicated to providing innovative healthcare to crisis-affected and low-resource areas.

I don't know anything about him - I copy and pasted that for context.

I was listening to in the background so I don't know how long the interview was. I think ~7 minutes at least. I noticed something very unusual. Almost zero questions. Stephanie Ruhle was interviewing him. Ruhle isn't rude but it's her habit to pepper guests with questions. She always does that. I've never seen her be so quiet. Also - MSNBC's PR shtick is that they ask questions and it makes you smarter. I forget an recent tagline - it was something like "Never stop asking questions".

It's the norm that anchors/reporters ask a lot of questions. In one way - the lack of questions was really great. He was highly knowledgeable and informed the audience in stark terms about how awful things are. That's the first time I've seen that on CNN or MSNBC. But the producers must have had him on because even though he didn't pull punches about the medical situation - they knew he was very politic and he'd avoid "politics".

The end result was that the agent of the chaos, Israel, hardly came up at all. It was like these horrible unfolding health problems were happening all by themselves due to unknown or poorly understood causes.

[-] deezbutts@lemm.ee 44 points 8 months ago

A friend of mine is volunteering for this organization. We're trying to help as IT guys but if you know anyone stranded in Israel or Gaza, or want to aid them indirectly, I thought I'd pass the link.

https://saveourallies.org/

(They've helped in other crisis scenarios as well)

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[-] zerfuffle@lemmy.ml 35 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago)
[-] AOCapitulator@hexbear.net 34 points 8 months ago

Israel is doing a genocide

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[-] simulacra_simulacrum@lemmy.world 31 points 8 months ago

There are a few Canadian citizens stuck in Gaza and very much in danger. I’m hoping that some solution can be found to help these people out.

[-] bloubz@lemmygrad.ml 22 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago)

Bro wtf. The millions of people in Gaza are in danger, how does their individual citizenships matter when there is non-descriminative bombing over the urban areas as well as exit routes? Israelis even bombed and killed prisoners from Israel in Gaza

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[-] fosho@lemmy.ca 30 points 8 months ago

apologies for the off topic, but this thread shows as 11 hours old and I only see 7 top level comments. for a major event mega thread I expected much more and I'm wondering if I'm doing Lemmy wrong somehow?

[-] blackn1ght@feddit.uk 35 points 8 months ago

A number of top level comments are from hexbear and lemmygrad so maybe your instance has those blocked? That will affect how many comments you see.

[-] zerfuffle@lemmy.ml 20 points 8 months ago

lemmy.ca defederated from hexbear.net and lemmygrad.ml, who are driving top-level comments on here. Since you can't see the top-level comments, you also can't see any discussion below.

I opposed lemmy.ca's decision to defederated from hexbear based on the perceived behaviour of hexbear users on other instances for exactly this reason: I think an instance's role is to police the actions of users posting to that instance, not to police their users' exposure to other instances.

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[-] zerfuffle@lemmy.ml 26 points 8 months ago

Is Egyptian/UN aid actually going to make it through the checkpoint? Egypt has had aid trucks parked outside for like days.

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[-] CollisionResistance@lemm.ee 25 points 8 months ago
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[-] HexbearGPT@hexbear.net 23 points 8 months ago

Israel should have to do what the whites in South Africa had to do after apartheid.

But without the economic apartheid continuing.

[-] vikinghoarder@infosec.pub 22 points 8 months ago

Why do Palestinians and Israelites hate each other?

[-] OsrsNeedsF2P@lemmy.ml 100 points 8 months ago

Tl;dr Israel showed up and kicked Palestinians out, Palestinians want their land back. Ensue 80 years of complications

[-] Ktastic@lemmy.ml 105 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago)

Also Israel has two means of aquiring citizenship. First is having Jewish ancestry. The second and more problematic is that anyone who converts to Judaism can apply in a slower process that grants them citizenship. People who aquire citizenship can then live there and gain govt benefits that subsidize living cost, in other words, govt sanctioned stealing of Palestinian homes/land. Thats why Palestinians say they often hear settlers with Brooklyn accents. People who live in places like NYC with high costs of living are basically given the option to have much cheaper housing if they convert and forget their morals about theft.

So basically Israel recruits citizens from groups of people who have financial incentives to move there and lack a sense of humanity to turn down "free stuff stolen from destitute opressed people" and thus you build a citizenry who is totally comfortable with this Apartheid/Genocidal bullshit.

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[-] SeventyTwoTrillion@hexbear.net 75 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago)

While many Palestinians do hate the Zionists and vice versa, framing the conflict as between two powers that hate each other for religious reasons or racist reasons or what have you is what leads to such terrible "Two religions fighting again for the billionth time!" analysis.

Israel is a modern colonial state. While most outright colonist countries are no longer around, Israel is the exception. One of the reasons why it's allowed to be the exception is because it's a stronghold for American interests in an incredibly important region - whoever controls the world's oil supply, controls everything that depends on oil, which is a LOT of things. Lately, it's also increasingly a weapons manufacturer and cybersecurity base - their technologies are tested out on Palestinians as if they are guinea pigs, and then these systems are sold to various countries for use in their own populations. In general, Palestinians today have low qualities of life and the amount of territory they control shrinks by the year as Israel shoves Palestinians out of their homes and puts Israeli settlers in those homes instead. Naturally, the Palestinians are not happy about this at all, but resistance is difficult even when you're not surrounded on all sides (Gaza has the sea, Israel, and Egypt bordering it, and Egypt is currently sympathetic to the Israeli side due to a coup that put Sisi in power; while the West Bank has Israel and Jordan, and Jordan is also sympathetic to Israel currently).

Palestine wants a state for themselves, which is a fairly reasonable thing to want. Israel absolutely does not want a two-state solution let alone to give Palestine all its land back. The two are therefore at an impasse - there's a fundamental contradiction here that cannot be solved by some middle of the ground solution. Palestine has attempted on numerous occasions to try and resist, both peacefully and violently - both methods get them killed in the thousands while the West says nothing, because again, it's extremely important to have Israel in the region as a Western imperialist outpost. Have you ever noticed that the only time the phrase "... has a right to exist", it's always in reference to Israel? Few other nations seem to have this "right" in the West's eyes. Yugoslavia sure didn't. Neither did the USSR, or for that matter modern-day Russia given the rhetoric going around a year or so ago about how they wanted to subdivide Russia into a dozen oblasts.

There are other powers in the region that are against Israel, with the weaker ones being Syria and Lebanon, while the strongest is Iran. Up until fairly recently, while Hezbollah (a sort of state-within-a-state military force separate from the rest of Lebanon but also integrated into it) has scored a few points on Israel in the past, they were broadly speaking outgunned by Israel. Additionally, Israel has nukes, which made a war to actually overthrow Israel essentially impossible without the risk of nuclear bombs being dropped on Beirut, Damascus, Tehran, etc. This has changed in the last few years, due to a mixture of Israel (and the West broadly speaking) becoming relatively weaker because so much military aid has been sent and destroyed in Ukraine, and Iran and friends becoming stronger. The threat of nuclear annihilation still exists, and it's one of the major problems still for the anti-Israel resistance, but given Hamas' victory in Gaza a week ago, there is blood in the water and the sharks are coming.

I hope this all shows that thinking along the lines of "X hates Y and so they're fighting" obfuscates a lot of what's actually going on geopolitically. It's extremely important to say that the fact that Israel is a Jewish state doesn't mean that they have, according to various right-wing conspiracy theories, some kind of outsized influence over so-and-so countries. Israel does have an influence over various countries because their propaganda department is very active in the West to shut down anti-Zionist (which is unequivocally NOT the same as anti-semitism) viewpoints, and the aforementioned cybersecurity and weapons development programs, but this is a two-way street. The West needs Israel. Israel needs the West. The United States is essentially what has kept Israel alive for the better part of the last century.

This isn't to say that Zionist and Islamic beliefs have no impact on the calculus here - they have a lot to do with it, in fact - but merely to say that this isn't just some inherently religious war.

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[-] zerfuffle@lemmy.ml 65 points 8 months ago

Palestinians want freedom and sovereignty, the Israeli government wants the exact opposite, and most Israeli people either support the government or don't care what happens (particularly because they get ~~free real estate~~settlements out of it).

[-] silent_water@hexbear.net 56 points 8 months ago

the British took over Palestine from the Ottomans, suppressed decolonization movements, then partitioned it to form Israel. during the formation of the Israeli state, Palestinians were slaughtered and driven out of their homes in an event known as the Nakba - which translates as "The Catastrophe". since then, there have been a series of wars resulting in the slow but steady encroachment of the Israeli state - look ip maps of the region over the decades - and the ethnic cleansing of Palestinians. in such an atmosphere, nothing but mutual hate is possible.

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[-] queermunist@lemmy.ml 52 points 8 months ago

Hmm, why would Palestinians hate European settlers that stole their land via the imperial edict of Britain? 🙄

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[-] blackn1ght@feddit.uk 22 points 8 months ago

UK Tory MP accuses politicians of being complicit in Israeli war crimes

Sorry for the Reddit link but I couldn't find an alternative source.

[-] zerfuffle@lemmy.ml 21 points 8 months ago

UN agency in Palestine blames Hamas of stealing Gaza aid, then deletes post on X and refutes claim

Reminder to be suspicious of all headlines!

In this case, the previous headline said that people purporting to be from the health authority of the de facto government of Gaza (i.e. Hamas) asked for medical supplies and UNRWA gave them... medical supplies.

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[-] iforgotmyinstance@lemmy.world 20 points 8 months ago

Civilian meat grinder.

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this post was submitted on 15 Oct 2023
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