this post was submitted on 25 May 2024

83 points (81.2% liked)

Privacy

31987 readers

494 users here now

A place to discuss privacy and freedom in the digital world.

Privacy has become a very important issue in modern society, with companies and governments constantly abusing their power, more and more people are waking up to the importance of digital privacy.

In this community everyone is welcome to post links and discuss topics related to privacy.

Some Rules

Posting a link to a website containing tracking isn't great, if contents of the website are behind a paywall maybe copy them into the post
Don't promote proprietary software
Try to keep things on topic
If you have a question, please try searching for previous discussions, maybe it has already been answered
Reposts are fine, but should have at least a couple of weeks in between so that the post can reach a new audience
Be nice :)

Related communities

Chat rooms

[Matrix/Element]Dead
Discord

much thanks to @gary_host_laptop for the logo design :)

founded 5 years ago

MODERATORS

See what’s changing in Firefox: Better insights, same privacy. Stil a good choice? (blog.mozilla.org)

submitted 5 months ago by Guadin@k.fe.derate.me to c/privacy@lemmy.ml

31 comments fedilink hide all child comments

Innovation and privacy go hand in hand here at Mozilla…

Is this the time to drop firefox?

top 31 comments

sorted by: hot top controversial new old

[–] jet@hackertalks.com 66 points 5 months ago (3 children)

Drop it for what?

[–] GolfNovemberUniform@lemmy.ml 7 points 5 months ago

~~Chromium ofc~~ Uhhhh WebKit I guess

[+] Guadin@k.fe.derate.me -15 points 5 months ago (3 children)

Librefox? Or something else? Don't know, but since Firefox is often recommended for privacy, I was wondering if this changes things?

[–] solivine@sopuli.xyz 50 points 5 months ago (3 children)

Is anonymous data collection really that bad? They've also been open and explained their whole process. Like surely data collection needs to happen at some level to inform new features and design?

[–] Guadin@k.fe.derate.me 13 points 5 months ago (1 children)

No it's not that bad. They indeed are open about it. But it feels like baby steps in the wrong way. I don't really have an opinion but I was just a bit disappointed about the path they're going on. Because I don't see the added value of knowing what users search for. So i was curious about opinions from more educated people.

[–] deweydecibel@lemmy.world 12 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago) (1 children)

The value is likely that they're selling it. Because they're a non-profit, and they have to make money somehow. Or they're using it to develop some kind of ai search function.

But the important, critical fact here is that Mozilla has routinely demonstrated that they can be trusted when they tell you "You can turn this off, and if you turn this off, it is actually off, and it will stay off."

You will never see that from Google or Microsoft or any of the others.

Look at the part where they mentioned that if you already disabled telemetry, this new telemetry is also disabled. Think about how rare that is nowadays with any consumer software from most big for-profit tech companies. New bullshit is always on by default, even if you disabled it previously. The fact Mozilla respected that puts them miles ahead of any of their competitors.

As for the "path they're going on", I don't know what to tell you, man. Every company is on this same path right now. The economics of the internet and the tech industry have gone to absolute shit, where privacy, user choice, competitive markets, and non-profits are all dying a slow painful death to enrich wall street. Mozilla will probably get caught in it too, but the best we can hope for is they hold out the longest.

[–] Guadin@k.fe.derate.me 1 points 5 months ago

You're right that they are miles ahead of other companies regarding communication and opt-out. And indeed it's rare that they will adhere to your choice when they implement new functions. For new users it's good to know that they perhaps want to switch this data collection off. Maybe it's a knee jerk reaction from my side: wanting to increase privacy and seeing this message brought up some worries. Especially because other companies started the same. Google also disguises stuff for better privacy or security, but in the end it's just to prevent users from blocking their data analytics.

[–] jet@hackertalks.com 6 points 5 months ago

opt-in, consent, etc.

mullvad browser is my go to, which is firefox... so i consider it part of the ecosystem of firefoxes

[–] nintendiator@feddit.cl 3 points 5 months ago

If they are so interested in asking me for my opinions on new features and design, they can post a survey. Stuff like Mozilla Connect already exists. No need to spy on everything I do (or don't do).

[–] jet@hackertalks.com 27 points 5 months ago (1 children)

mozilla is on a bad path, but they are still the most privacy respecting (with configuration) option of the big browsers today.

[–] deweydecibel@lemmy.world 2 points 5 months ago

And the fact they provide those configurations is important in and of itself. Configurable software is falling more and more out of fashion.

[–] TheFeatureCreature@lemmy.world 4 points 5 months ago (2 children)

This is disabled if you turn off telemetry in the settings, which users should already be doing anyway. I don't see this as any worse than what they already do.

[–] lud@lemm.ee 7 points 5 months ago

which users should already be doing anyway.

Not necessarily. If you want to support the software it's generally a good idea to leave it on as it helps the devs find bugs and what features are needed and what existing features that are used.

[–] dubyakay@lemmy.ca 4 points 5 months ago (1 children)

Why would I disable telemetry when it can give valuable information for development purposes?

[–] nintendiator@feddit.cl -1 points 5 months ago (1 children)

Capture everything you do on the browser 24/7 to machine-process it for "points"

Simply asking for feedback or taking feedback directly on the points I'm interested, for example with a survey or Mozilla Connect

[–] dubyakay@lemmy.ca 2 points 5 months ago

What points tho? Firefox doesn't give you any points for anything.

[–] deweydecibel@lemmy.world 28 points 5 months ago (1 children)

Are we ignoring the part where you can disable it the same way you always could?

They even when out of their way to assure you if you already had telemetry disabled, absolutely nothing is changing for you and no data is being collected now.

[–] muntedcrocodile@lemm.ee 0 points 5 months ago

Still hate default firfox build u cant disable telemetry in about: config. Gotta go with librewolf.

[–] ItCantBeThatEasy@lemmy.world 16 points 5 months ago (2 children)

I don’t really understand what search topics have to do with improving the browser. The blog post doesn’t make that clear at all.

[–] jjlinux@lemmy.ml 6 points 5 months ago (1 children)

Agreed. If it was for a search engine, it would make some sense, but the browser, WTF for?

[–] jet@hackertalks.com 5 points 5 months ago (1 children)

Because the lived experience of many users is the browser integrates with the search engine to give you predictive suggestions as you type, identify images, translate, etc.

[–] jjlinux@lemmy.ml 3 points 5 months ago (1 children)

That's cool, the thing is that Mozilla does not have a search engine. What's the use for them? Benchmarking other engines? Knowing engine rankings?

What you mention in your comment, they already do now.

[–] jet@hackertalks.com 2 points 5 months ago (1 children)

I don't think they make a ton of sense. Just that there is some rational for a browser executive to talk about search engines.

[–] jjlinux@lemmy.ml 2 points 5 months ago (1 children)

Oh yeah, anything that can be potentially used to make more revenue will make sense to most C-suites.

I'm just glad there are still alternatives, but the degradation of quality of life for Firefox users just keeps dropping, and that is really sad.

[–] jet@hackertalks.com 2 points 5 months ago

Yeah, I genuinely think the Mozilla leadership resent Firefox.

[–] Ilandar@aussie.zone 1 points 5 months ago

This is my question as well. I am happy to leave it on if they can provide a clearer explanation of what my data will be used for, but for now it will remain off.

[–] 01189998819991197253@infosec.pub 13 points 5 months ago (1 children)

I'm not a fan of automated data collection, regardless of the reason. I see the merit, though, but I won't allow it. The post is very clear about the preserved anonymity of the collected data, which is good, and on how to easily opt out, which is great.

This statement, however, was a bit strange. Almost like they are being flippant on local laws. Since I know this isn't the case here, they should have phrased it different. (Emphasis mine)

Your search activities are handled with the same level of confidentiality as all other data regardless of any local laws surrounding certain health services.

[–] Cargon@lemmy.ml 5 points 5 months ago (1 children)

They definitely could have phrased this better. I think what they mean is that their level of confidentiality meets or exceeds local laws.

[–] 01189998819991197253@infosec.pub 3 points 5 months ago

That's what I also understood. It's just an odd, almost incorrect, phrasing. Unless our understanding is wrong, and they actually mean that they won't follow the local laws if said laws require them to violate privacy.