No Stupid Questions

I think part of the issue is that people in general don't think very much beyond themselves. To be sure, privacy issues do affect them personally whether they acknowledge it or not, but it also has implications for the sort of society in which we live and what's permissible for companies and governments to do. That affects everyone. In terms of how to get people to care about things on that level, clever memes is probably more likely to sway people than elaborate persuasive arguments. They're just more effective at getting ideas into people's minds when they'd otherwise not think about them at all.

Well, maybe you are:

• Planning a surprise party
• Leaving a job
• Trying to escape an abusive relationship
• Famous
• Writing a detective novel
• A writer without a publisher
• Searching about an embarrassing medical condition
• Having a crush in someone
• In the closet
• A teenager with controlling parents
• Having a hobby that's considered embarrassing or childish
• Having a psycho stalker
• Buying a present from Santa
• A reporter who doesn't want to reveal their sources
• Buying a toilet and you don't want toilet recommendations for the rest of your life
• Lending your computer to someone, and you don't want your recommended videos to change
• Under an NDA

... Or maybe you're talking with someone who's in one of those categories.

We have to normalise privacy in order to keep these people safe. For instance, it's a stupid example but it works, if I always use private browser windows, my husband won't suspect anything when I'm looking for a gift for him.

That's only the tip of the iceberg and it's not even touching some bigger problems:

• You can be profiled based on your likes, social media posts, purchase history, etc, and maybe used for election results manipulation, or who knows what else. That's not a conspiracy theory, it has happened, see for instance Cambridge Analytica.
• Maybe the political situation will change in the future. Oops, now your data is suddenly in the hands of a malicious dictator.
• If you keep a backdoor open to let the "good and trusted" actors in, there's no way to not let malicious actors in as well.

Do you go around showing your grandma photos of your asshole? Like, during church and everything? Because if yes I wanna hang with your granny she sounds cool but that's beside the point.

"I have nothing to hide."

Until regressives make normal shit illegal, as they often try to do.

Ask to put a webcam in their bathroom. Privacy is a right and has nothing to do with having something to hide. That's like saying freedom of speech is not needed because you don't have anything smart to say.

Well, it's a bullshit argument. Do the "nothing to hide" people shit with all the doors and windows open or on a video stream? Do the "nothing to hide" people freely give out their bank details or nudes?

There is absolutely no reason to assume the government can be trusted to keep your private info private. If anything there is good reason to assume it won't be or it will be used against you. Maybe there is a leak or someone gets into power that shouldn't.

From a legal perspective it doesn't make any sense either. Political winds change governments and laws. Things you feel will always be legal may not be in the future. We could easily have a red scare 2.0 or get fascism in power.

Society changes as well. How many people are fucked over by online activity or picture from a decade ago? Lots of common social stances have not aged well. Crap kids say or document online will begin to affect them as an adult. Look at how some people target lgbt groups just for existing.

You should just fucking drop it. That's what you should do.

I don't care that ADs are targeted vs blasted. I don't care that meta sells advertising data. Meta provides a service I like and I have no fear that it will be used against me in any meaningful way that will reduce my quality of life.

Just stop. At this point you are quickly approaching Jehova witness level of cringe.

It is not even an argument, because it presumes that everything that is just or good should be open and transparent which is a false premise and undermines the current reality we live in.

"So you don't mind if I put a live Webcam in your shower?"

Even if you have nothing to hide yourself (which, as other commenters said, is very unlikely), and can be certain you'll never have anything to hide ever (even less probable), there will be other people who do have something to hide. That does not mean they are evil (though some are) - maybe they are fighting for a cause, or maybe they are persecuted minorities, or maybe governments and/or powerful organizations will want to bring them harm.

These people, being mere humans, have some minor secrets in their past or present that can be signal-boosted by a malevolent agent to seriously hurt them, their reputation, and/or their social standing. And even if they did mange to obtain the level of sainthood that the have-noving-to-hide folks seem to possess - their perfectly normative personal information can still be used to dox them or retaliate against them in some other way.

If you care about these people and/or any cause they may be fighting for, then you don't want them to be the only ones who demand privacy. Because:

1. They will effectively be holding a big "I have something to hide" signs, being the only ones that opt to protect their privacy.
2. Governments and companies will have an easy job giving them very small privacy protection, if at all, since there will be no pressure from the general public for privacy protection.

This will make it much easier to persecute minorities and to retaliate against activists, making society as a whole much worse for everyone.

"ok show me your browser history. Let me see your text messages too while you're at it."

Came across this one on Lemmy today, worth a read: https://technomagnus.vercel.app/posts/why-privacy-matters

What I think about is that you may have nothing to hide but that doesn't mean your data can't be manipulated in the future by bad actors.

It’s a service you’re providing to a company that they’re selling for profit but you’re not getting any compensation for. If you’re fine with that, that’s your right.

Yeah, I'm not doing anything wrong. Thing is, I'm not the one who would be deciding if the things I'm doing are wrong. The people who would be deciding are determined to find fault with everyone.

Do you have curtains in your house? Can I look at your income tax records and all purchases made on your visa and bank card?

Ask the person telling you that to describe in detail the last time they were intimate with someone and their security information for their bank account. Then when they are confused and upset repeat "got nothing to hide nothing to fear right?"

That is like saying you have nothing to say, so don't need free speech rights

I was really interested coming into this thread, because although I am conscious about privacy I sometimes wonder why I bother.

Unfortunately none of the counterarguments in the comments are convincing at all.

Analogies with letting someone see you naked are stupid. We're not talking about naked photos, were talking about stuff like your age range and what newspaper you read. I don't care who knows that.

"Future authoritarian governments could use it against you" isn't worth worrying about. The government will have access to official records and can question you in person. Your ethnicity, religion, politics and sexuality are all easily found out whether you post them online or not. The fact that some advertising start up knows them will make no difference.

"If someone knows enough about you they can tailor Facebook ads to control your mind" is just sci fi conspiracy theory paranoia. Besides which they could run the same ads without targeting and I'd be just as mind controlled even if my data was a secret.

Edit: I really don't mind getting downvotes, but if anyone has time to make an actual counterargument that would be great

I mean take a look at what's happening in Russia (besides the war) - folks over there had nothing to hide until suddenly they had and quite a few people got a prison sentence for their posts, re-posts and likes made before the war. While Russia is quite an extreme case it's not the most extreme and you can sit on the "it won't happen to me/here" pills yet so thought those people.

most are only worried about their passwords, banking apps and not much else.

Gee whiz, that sounds like something to hide!

"It makes your internet faster you dum."

-Me when someone asks "what all that stuff does?"

If they've nothing to hide, then why are they so dodgy when things like lolicon are discussed? Their actions speak louder than their words ever could.

There is an age old practice from olden days of the internet. If you don't want your nudes out there, if you don't want your name out there, if you don't want anything of you out there - you don't put it out there. Because once it's out there, you won't ever know who'll see it much less, have it. I always assume, that as soon as I upload a picture of myself somewhere on social media, someone would've had to have right clicked and saved it already. For what purpose? Who knows, could be a matter of some sick personal collector of people they particularly are fascinated with to potential murderers who're only lacking my location but should they find me out in the open, they'll know what I look like and probably kill me. And anything in between.

But so many people on Facebook, complain about how it is that they make new accounts and suddenly are presented with familiar faces to re-add as friends. Whether or not it's a new e-mail to even a new location, Facebook knows you so well by now, that they'll pitch you all of whom you've had, even if you don't want them. That defeats the point of wanting a refreshing restart on your life when all you've got is reminders.

Black markets also exist that circulate your data. Why would one think that one day, they're seeing a bunch of transactions that they didn't authorize all of a sudden? Well, somewhere at somepoint, someone did seize your credit card or bank info and now is running hogwild on it.

They're not worried yet because it hasn't happened to them, but boy do the tables turn once people are affected by these experiences.

Whether you have something to hide depends on those in power. The people in power now setting the rules won’t be the same in several years.