this post was submitted on 25 Aug 2024

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Indiana Jones and the Great Circle devs say an Indy game 'could never be a shooter, should never be a shooter,' so they're embracing his signature whip, improvised brawls, and disguise-based stealth.. (www.pcgamer.com)

submitted 2 weeks ago by nanoUFO@sh.itjust.works to c/games@sh.itjust.works

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[–] tal 36 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago) (1 children)

Indiana Jones and the Great Circle devs say an Indy game 'could never be a shooter, should never be a shooter,' so they're embracing his signature whip,

"Indiana Jones, he's not a gunslinger, right? He doesn't go guns blazing into situations," said Jens Andersson, design director at MachineGames. "So it could never be a shooter, should never be a shooter.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kQKrmDLvijo

https://www.etonline.com/indiana-jones-why-harrison-ford-pitched-raiders-of-the-lost-arks-famous-gun-vs-sword-scene

'Indiana Jones': Why Harrison Ford Pitched 'Raiders of the Lost Ark's Famous Gun vs Sword Scene (Flashback)

Speaking to the amount of forethought that proceeded their looming shoot day, Ford noted, "A lot of planning had gone into this fight scene," adding that they had even rehearsed with "a lot of extras" the night prior.

"At that point, I was quite ill with dysentery. I really wasn't able to stay away from my trailer for more than the length to shoot a magazine (referring to a movie camera’s film stock that, on average, allowed for 10 minutes worth of filming)," he recalled.

While the Han Solo actor endured his crippling illness, Ford was also concerned the audience might lose sight of Indiana’s objective to rescue Marion if he got pulled into another showdown.

"I thought about it. We had about an hour and a half ride into our location. By the time I got to the location, I was convinced that it was too much," he remembered. "I went up to Steven as soon as I arrived, and I said, 'Steven, why don't we just shoot this sumb***h?' And Steven said, 'I was thinking that, too!'"

As for the swordsman actor (Terry Richards) who spent months training for this one scene, Ford admitted he felt "terribly sorry for him" but also believed their improvised alternative "served the film well."

[–] Davel23@fedia.io 14 points 2 weeks ago (2 children)

There's also the scene in Last Crusade where he machine-guns down a bunch of Nazis.

[–] p03locke@lemmy.dbzer0.com 51 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

But, these are exceptions that prove the rule. He so rarely uses guns that it's novel when it happens.

[–] tal 18 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago) (1 children)

I was just trying to grab the above because it's a famous example of Indy not doing that, but aight, let's put some numbers on it.

This guy looks like he's gone to the trouble of highlighting Indy's kills:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-zphhfHon_I&t=2561s

Raiders of the Lost Ark

Kills via shooting: 5

Kills via other means: 4

Temple of Doom

Kills via shooting: 1

Kills via other means: 20

The Last Crusade

Kills via shooting: 6

Kills via other means: 7

Kingdom of the Crystal Skull

Kills via shooting: 0

Kills via other means: 1

Going by those numbers, most of Indy's kills are via other means than shooting them -- the only movie in which most were from him shooting people was Raiders of the Lost Ark -- but I don't know if I'd call it "so rare".

[–] MrScottyTay@sh.itjust.works 21 points 2 weeks ago (2 children)

But not every altercation he has ends in the death of someone so i don't know if deaths is the metric to measure it by

[–] pyre@lemmy.world 4 points 2 weeks ago (2 children)

it is when you compare it to a videogame. in games these numbers would be in the high hundreds in an action game. i mean the number of people you kill in uncharted just to collect a trinket is ridiculous. that's the contrast.

[–] sugar_in_your_tea@sh.itjust.works 5 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

And honestly, killing shouldn't be the main way to solve problems in an Indiana Jones game. If you watch the movies, he largely avoids fighting, and when he does, he usually knocks out opponents instead of killing them. When he uses his whip, it's rarely directly against a person, it's to swing across gaps, trigger traps, or disarm an opponent, not to attack an opponent. And that is what an Indiana Jones game should be.

If this Indiana Jones is focused on combat and merely limits itself to whips and punching, it's going to miss the mark of what makes an Indiana Jones game an Indiana Jones game. It should be focused on puzzles, stealth, and chases, not combat.

[–] pyre@lemmy.world 4 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

that's why the best indie games were p&c adventure games.

[–] sugar_in_your_tea@sh.itjust.works 2 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

I absolutely love P&C adventure games, even to this day. I loved Indiana Jones and the Fate of Atlantis, and I think that's the perfect medium for an Indiana Jones game. We can make it 3D by making it largely a walking sim puzzle game, with some QTEs or something for the action sequences.

That wouldn't appeal to a broad audience though, but I think it would work well. But as long as it's not just AC with whips instead of knives, I'll probably play and love it.

[–] pyre@lemmy.world 2 points 2 weeks ago

telltale games had a great formula that served as an evolution of that genre imo... and they were massively successful.

unfortunately though going overboard with fake choices (which i initially didn't have a problem with btw—different discussion though) and more importantly seeming to have a very strict formula that kept repeating in all their games kind of turned people off with time. this wasn't helped by the fact that they stretched too thin with too many projects at once leading to reduction in quality and polish.

Fate of Atlantis is my favorite p&c adventure. great writing, great characters, great visuals, truly interesting adventure, and not reliant on moon logic as much.

[–] MrScottyTay@sh.itjust.works 3 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

But that's not what that analysis was about. It's about whether or not it would be suitable for a game on indy to be a shooter and trying to see how synonymous he is with shooting. The Devs saying that him using a gun is rare. But this comment was comparing deaths by other means vs guns. Instead of just combat with guns vs other means.

[–] pyre@lemmy.world 4 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

i don't get what u mean. what else does he shoot? the point is gun combat is not the point of the movies. shouldn't he the point of the games either. he's known for hit hat and whip more than his gun.

[–] MrScottyTay@sh.itjust.works 1 points 2 weeks ago

I'm not arguing for it being a shooter. In arguing against it. Saying that comparing the deaths he caused and how is less indicative because there's more combat sequences that don't end in death, removing them skewed the data to make it look like our war almost a 50/50 on whether he used a gun or not in any given encounter. That's wrong. That's what I was saying.

[–] Voroxpete@sh.itjust.works 3 points 2 weeks ago

Yeah, the immediate problem with comparing gun to non-gun kills is that anything involving a gun is automatically more likely to result in someone dead. So it doesn't really give you a picture of how Indy likes to approach problems. And once a gun does become the tool of choice in a scene, the body count is likely to rack up a lot faster. You can show five people getting gunned down much faster than you can show one Nazi getting his head propellered off. Guns tend to be how disposable mooks die, but signature enemies get the more elaborate deaths.

[–] PerogiBoi@lemmy.ca 7 points 2 weeks ago

Ya but machine gunning Nazis is a mitzvah, like helping the poor or holding a door open for someone. That’s different.

[–] captain_aggravated@sh.itjust.works 29 points 2 weeks ago (2 children)

Indiana Jones carries a revolver and occasionally uses it, but yes Indiana Jones isn't a story about a gunman. The way I would implement the gun mechanic in an Indiana Jones game is give him limited ammo, maybe 6 to 12 bullets, and few opportunities to restock. Indy should defeat enemies either by setting off traps/environmental kills, fisticuffs, or with his whip, with his gun as a weapon of last resort. Also, there should definitely be moments where the player feels like a genius for remembering he has a gun.

[–] Kolanaki@yiffit.net 6 points 2 weeks ago

Ghost of Tsushima style stand-offs, but when the bad guy does his flashy come out, Indy just shoots him. Just like the movie.

[–] Xanis@lemmy.world 1 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

I agree. Though have a random small chance of the gun disappearing when you go to use it, with dialogue.

[–] captain_aggravated@sh.itjust.works 4 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

Don't do it randomly. Either design sequences where Indy is disarmed, or actually embrace the 6 bullets per level idea, don't puss out and leave bullets just before every conceivable thing Indy might shoot. Make every encounter doable with the whip/fists/environmental stuff, but make shooting something a very cool way to handle certain situations for players who conserve their ammo.

[–] PenguinTD@lemmy.ca 1 points 2 weeks ago

One of the old Indy adventure game(Last Crusade) have that branch where you can shoot, fight or work around the airship boxing champ.

[–] whotookkarl@lemmy.world 26 points 2 weeks ago

Hitmandiana Jones?

[–] Ephera@lemmy.ml 23 points 2 weeks ago (2 children)

I mean, yeah, it's gotta be a Lara Croft game, just without Lara.

[–] Iheartcheese@lemmy.world 38 points 2 weeks ago (3 children)

Harrison Ford would look great with some giant honkin titties though

[–] magic_smoke@links.hackliberty.org 8 points 2 weeks ago

Harrison's Honkers

[–] Ephera@lemmy.ml 6 points 2 weeks ago

Man, I refrained from writing:

it's gotta be a Lara Croft game, just without ~~Lara~~ triangle boobs.

And now you come along and just slamdunk that right in there.

[–] tal 4 points 2 weeks ago

It looks like the developer's last game used Id Tech as its engine, and Bethesda is the publisher, both of which are positive signs in favor of the game being moddable.

[–] pyre@lemmy.world 18 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

considering that Tomb Raider was an Indiana Jones game without Indiana...

[–] Ephera@lemmy.ml 4 points 2 weeks ago

Yep.

[–] sundray@lemmus.org 20 points 2 weeks ago (2 children)

disguise-based stealth instead

"If you are a Scottish lord then I am MICKEY MOUSE!"

[–] Crashumbc@lemmy.world 8 points 2 weeks ago

tApestries!

[–] whelk@lemm.ee 5 points 2 weeks ago

How dare he?

[–] FinalRemix@lemmy.world 4 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

So it's just The Saboteur, but without a fun nightclub and no Mick to play as?

[–] masterspace@lemmy.ca 4 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago)

How do you know there's not a fun nightclub?

[–] HeyThisIsntTheYMCA@lemmy.world 1 points 2 weeks ago

just have him sell fine leather jackets