this post was submitted on 29 Sep 2023
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[–] 1bluepixel@lemmy.world 153 points 1 year ago (8 children)

The easy, low-cost solution is to build freight rail. But no, that's communism and it doesn't get a tech billionaire their extra billion.

[–] Aux@lemmy.world 50 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Somehow capitalists all over the world love freight trains. It's just US being dumb as always.

[–] Primarily0617@kbin.social 71 points 1 year ago (3 children)

US rail freight is unironically some of the best in the world.

Part of the reason US passenger rail sucks so much is because the network is largely owned by freight companies, so priority always goes to freight over passengers.

[–] Iron_Lynx@lemmy.world 17 points 1 year ago

US freight rail looks great since for one, the freight railways dominate the scene, and for two, the US is up there in network distance as well as cargo transport volume in tonne kilometers. And of course, they have some very high operating margins.

However, the devil's in the details.

For one, if we redefine the amount of cargo transported to be measured in US Dollar kilometers, they're suddenly doing a trash job. Much of the cargo they move is fungible (it doesn't matter what unit of this cargo you have, any kg is a good kg), bulky and not time sensitive. Things like coal, crude oil or gravel are disproportionately common freights on US rails, compared to other places.

Secondly, they put a lot of trains besides the tracks. I recall seeing they managed to derail about 1700 trains a year. Most other train systems don't even do a tenth of that in a decade, even when corrected for track mileage.

Speaking of track mileage, US railroads actively reduce the amount and quality of track, while bitching & moaning to the government and the press that they're overburdened. Meanwhile, they also operate a procedure of precision scheduled railroading, which I'll spare you the details on, but let's just say it's not precise, it's not scheduled and it's barely railroading, and despite forcing some train crews to sit back and do nothing for hours, it still saves them one train crew. The only time they'll actually expand is because either they really did have a bottleneck for decades, or something catastrophically fails.

On top of that, the freight railroads do everything in their power to avoid capital spending, so they refuse to electrify their lines and/or to install more advanced signalling and train protection. One major fuel shock, and American railroads are on their knees while India, China and most of the EU are laughing. And most signalling is unenforced, or maybe functioning at the tech level of AWS.

You just know that if the train in the East Palestine derailment was run not my Norfolk Southern, but by SBB Cargo, the Swiss national railways' cargo branch, then

  1. The track would have been at least doubled, under wires, and secured using a very advanced standard of positive train control.
  2. The train would have been several trains, each hauled by electric locomotives.
  3. The disaster train, at best, would not even have made it out of the yard. At worst, it would have been stopped, and probably directed onto a siding, two towns prior for having a failing bearing.
  4. Passenger trains would have all the room to run down the track they need.
[–] mondoman712@lemmy.ml 13 points 1 year ago (1 children)

The US freight rail industry isn't some of the best in the world, it's actually really quite terrible. It fails to maintain it's infrastructure, can't run to a schedule, frequently loses cargo, and causes ecological disasters. It is good at creating short term profits for shareholders, not being an effective transportation network. If you want more info, here's a video that explains it better.

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[–] jscummy@sh.itjust.works 21 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

US freight rail is fine and a lot of cargo goes by train for the most part. There's still gotta be trucks to get to and from the terminal. Not many facilities have built in rail spurs, or the need to ship an entire train load at once for that matter

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[–] imBANO@lemmy.world 33 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Rails are indeed one of the cheapest, best scaling, and most reliable ways to move goods no doubt, but it also has a last mile problem.

Just wanted to point out the solution isn’t as easy as “rails all things”. Trucks still do offer some situational advantages, and will still have their place in logistics.

[–] Shayeta@feddit.de 11 points 1 year ago (2 children)

I agree with the sentiment, but did you not notice the "across the country" part of the title?

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[–] Gabu@lemmy.world 5 points 1 year ago

The place of trucks in logistics is in hell, delivering coal.

[–] Primarily0617@kbin.social 23 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (3 children)

I wouldn't call effective rail infrastructure "low-cost".

[–] SpaceCowboy@lemmy.ca 26 points 1 year ago (17 children)

Cheaper than highways. The reason why long haul trucking exists is because the construction of highways is highly subsidized. Even then, it's often more cost effective to use rail.

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[–] kameecoding@lemmy.world 26 points 1 year ago (9 children)

compared to highways? absolutely low-cost.

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[–] c0mbatbag3l@lemmy.world 19 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I wouldn't exactly call removing nature and laying down the track "easy" either. That's tens of thousands of miles of steel carving through the terrain.

Also, we have a ton of rail, it's just prioritized for freight over passenger transit. A high speed passenger rail network would be nice though.

[–] Fedizen@lemmy.world 19 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (9 children)

compared to a 5 lane highway its a pittance - theres a reason why private rail companies can exist but private road companies largely don't.

The problem is there's a lot more federal funding for the shittier solution so when budgetting are you going to build the thing the feds will pay 100% or 0%?

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If it can be done economically, it'll be done. And it has been, the freight rail network in the US is huge.

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[–] tdawg@lemmy.world 86 points 1 year ago (3 children)

That is literally the most dangerous bike lane in existence

[–] BlemboTheThird@lemmy.ca 31 points 1 year ago

holy shit, i thought that was some kind of graphical overlay. that's a bike lane!? that has to be intentional, like some kind of malicious compliance from someone who hates cyclists

[–] paperemail@links.rocks 31 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

I saw the picture first and finished the headline in my mind:

A self-driving freight truck just drove across several cyclists

[–] nexguy@lemmy.world 23 points 1 year ago (1 children)

The cyclists were turned into butter

[–] u202307011927@feddit.de 9 points 1 year ago (2 children)

And then they were delivered

[–] ColonelSanders@lemmy.world 5 points 1 year ago

I can't believe it's not bikes

[–] u202307011927@feddit.de 4 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Delivered to

or

Delivered from

?

[–] Belgdore@lemm.ee 5 points 1 year ago

No, like a baby.

[–] photonic_sorcerer@lemmy.dbzer0.com 23 points 1 year ago (1 children)

JFC, whose bright idea was that?

[–] Riven@lemmy.dbzer0.com 7 points 1 year ago (2 children)

The buddy of the governor who got the contract lul. At least that's what happened in my friends small town when they built a roundabout that took 4 years to finish for a small 4 lane intersection that had stops before on a road that got maaaaaybe 12 cars a day

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[–] HubertManne@kbin.social 53 points 1 year ago

The next self driving truck will be delivering ice to alaska.

[–] pipows 39 points 1 year ago

Hear me out: trains

[–] echo64@lemmy.world 22 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I'm sure glad we developed technology just to avoid paying one person to drive that truck. This is progress and will not have knock on consequences. We should celebrate this.

[–] hakase@lemm.ee 8 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (3 children)

This, but unironically. Automation is a good thing, and every driver who loses their job over this drives the necessity of finding post-automation solutions that much closer to the breaking point.

[–] echo64@lemmy.world 19 points 1 year ago

Oh yes, I'm sure our current socioeconomic systems will get right on finding post automation solutions. That'll happen real soon now. I mean, it'll have to happen, right? We won't just let all the jobs dissolve away so that shareholders get richer, right? That would be crazy to do that. I can't imagine a society that would possibly do that, could you?

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[–] viperex@lemmy.world 13 points 1 year ago

This must have been intentional

[–] Sagar@sopuli.xyz 7 points 1 year ago

Caption better than meme!

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