this post was submitted on 09 Sep 2024
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Is there some aspect of this or the math behind it that I do not understand? If it reduces the damage that you take, that is good, right? Or does it only reduce damage to me if I would otherwise get a mortal attack against me?

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[–] seaQueue@lemmy.world 10 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (2 children)

It reduces damage to you based on the level of the ring and your current missing HP. The effect is mediocre unless either: the ring is high level (5 or 6+) or you're missing a lot of HP. Even then you need the ring at +8 if you want ~50% damage reduction at 50% HP. Compared to just about any other option upgrading tenacity is a poor choice.

Edit: A while back I graphed tenacity and a bunch of other scaling effects to better understand how they scale with upgrades, here's +0 -> +4 and +8:

You can see that the scaling itself isn't terrible (the effect is actually pretty good at high levels) but the effect is pretty mediocre at the levels you'll encounter most often (+0 -> +2.) To get a solidly good effect out of the ring you need to live in the danger zone at fairly low HP, which puts you at risk of getting instagibbed by a surprise attack.

I don't really like the trade offs Tenacity requires but if I were going to play a tenacity dump game I'd be targeting damage reduction equal to missing HP for a given target and then try to stay as close to that level as possible. 50% DR at 50% HP happens at +8, and 70% DR @ 70% missing HP happens at about +9/+10. I'd probably go for +10 then try to stay right at ~30% total HP. The problem is that you're devoting 2/3 (or all with the runes challenge) of your offensive upgrades to just soaking damage and that leaves you with really mediocre damage output.

[–] dotplot@lemy.lol 1 points 1 day ago
[–] Vencedor@lemmy.world 2 points 1 week ago (1 children)

But even with upgrades and at low health, it will never reduce damage under 1 hp, so you'll always take damage... Which isn't a good combo when at 1 hp. That's why this ring is a very bad idea. Unless you are going with Faith Is My Armor, you could just do yourself a favor and dump those upgrades into your armor; which will reduce the damage that you take to 0 hp; and you can stay at high levels of health for your armor to be effective.

[–] seaQueue@lemmy.world 3 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (1 children)

Yeah, I think we're saying the same thing here. The loss of other utility just doesn't make upgrade dumping tenacity very worthwhile and at the levels you're most likely to encounter the effect without dumping it's just not good enough to justify using when you can slot literally anything else.

I guess it could be fun on the right kind of berserker build but that's about all I can come up with.

[–] Vencedor@lemmy.world 1 points 1 week ago

This ring so useless, the berserker build is the only idea anyone has had with this ring tbh

[–] krakenfury@lemmy.sdf.org 6 points 1 week ago (1 children)

It is rather a snooze compared to basically all of the other rings. Sure it can reduce the damage you take, but it takes effort to maximize it's benefit.

Consider that it's affect scales with how low your health is. It also applies the reduction after armor and it rounds the result in favor of damage.

This is just a ring you'll wear until you find something better, or transmute it, if it's upgraded.

[–] UNY0N@lemmy.world 1 points 1 week ago (1 children)

You cab make it work with beserker subclass and lots of upgrades. In that case it does make you into a huge tank, and it's a viable choice. Otherwise it isn't worth it.

[–] Vencedor@lemmy.world 2 points 1 week ago

Even then, just using those upgrades on a plate armor is better

[–] Vencedor@lemmy.world 1 points 1 week ago

It's the joke ring. It stands in the joke ring corner, among with elements ring.

[–] Pickyfan@lemmy.world 1 points 1 week ago (1 children)

Hopefully I don't get harrased here for giving an opinion

The ring itself is just straight up, honest damage reduction, both physical and magical.

It's also not your only source of damage reduction, so you stack it on top of other forms of damage reduction, there's a lot of them

Evasion, shields, armor, utility, buffs and debuffs, sustain. All those things are enhanced by the ring of tenacity.

It's kind of the same logic for the warrior Hold fast ability (3-6 armor) and the warden's Barkskin ability ( 0-150% of her level, it goes up to 0-45 armor at level 30)

Even if the Warden blocks significantly more damage, the warrior gets more benefit from the extra armor since he has a passive shield to back it up

[–] Vencedor@lemmy.world 2 points 1 week ago (1 children)

You didn't even have an opinion on it, you just kindaaaa said what it does

[–] Pickyfan@lemmy.world 1 points 1 week ago (1 children)

I think it's the best defensive ring in the game

[–] Vencedor@lemmy.world 1 points 1 week ago (1 children)

It's literally the only... wait, excluding elements, I almost forgot that clowny clown ring.. only defensive ring without counting clown clowny ring in the game, ofc it's the best defensive ring in the game.

[–] Pickyfan@lemmy.world 1 points 1 week ago (1 children)

Also including arcana with a good defensive glyph, evasion, and haste

[–] Vencedor@lemmy.world 1 points 6 days ago (1 children)

Then haste is the most defensive one no contest if you count it.

[–] Pickyfan@lemmy.world 1 points 6 days ago (1 children)

I like tenacity more, but I understand

[–] Vencedor@lemmy.world 3 points 6 days ago (1 children)

If it wasn't fundamentally flawed and just putting those upgrades in your armor making the damage reduction not only more effective but also giving you the possibility of having a better ring (literally every other ring) maybe I would like it too.

[–] Pickyfan@lemmy.world 1 points 6 days ago (1 children)

The thing is, putting everything on armor doesn't get you magic resistance.

[–] Vencedor@lemmy.world 1 points 6 days ago (1 children)

Just dodge the attacks. They are more punishing but avoidable. Once you have enough skill, you won't need to resist them, because you'll just not get hit

[–] Pickyfan@lemmy.world 1 points 6 days ago (1 children)

Okay, that's like saying "if you know how to manage food, you should never need the horn of plenty"

Stuff just happens, I like having the ring of tenacity

[–] Vencedor@lemmy.world 1 points 6 days ago (1 children)

Horn of Plenty is still good for On Diet...

[–] Pickyfan@lemmy.world 1 points 6 days ago (1 children)

Yeah it is. Case in point, everything has it's use

[–] Vencedor@lemmy.world 1 points 5 days ago (1 children)

No, not everything. For example: Ring of Elements, arguably Ring of Tenacity, Ring of Wealth while ascending, Sandals of Nature, Alchemist's toolkit, for some reason the Amulet of Yendor, blocking enchantment (it's a joke, it's trigger chance is really rare and it gives low shield for a small amount of turns. If you upgrade the weapons to make it more effective you won't need the shield, enemies just die) and all the shards (free achievement or gold)

[–] Pickyfan@lemmy.world 1 points 5 days ago

I could make a case for all of those things, literally none of them are useless. Some other time 🤔

But you should play around more to find uses of items and everything else

Some things have synergies with other things.

Except the amulet of yendor, but that's supposed to be the last item you get