Shame it's an SUV or something even larger.
this post was submitted on 13 Oct 2024
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[Dormant] Electric Vehicles
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What’s the greater shame: that it’s a land yacht, or that it’s Stellantis?
Yes
Amazing, what a great development. The value prop of my Chevy Bolt was always the operating cost. I've saved $25000 CAD over five years on gas and oil changes VS a car with 8l/100km (my old car). I'm at the point now that my Bolt was a better or equal deal to most new vehicles over $20,000 CAD MRSP. In a few years the low operating cost will make it a better deal than any car over $10,000. If the car makes it to around 300,000 km it will have saved so much money on gas it will have offset its own cost.
But when I talk to people about it the capital cost is what people tend to fixate on. As if operating it doesn't count. But at price parity, it's basically a no brainer for the vast majority of commuters. This barrier is gone.
The used market is transforming here too. I actually just purchased a second EV, a loaded 2020 soul ev with 2 years/20,000km bumper to bumper warranty left, and 140,000 battery warranty. I paid $16000CAD, this was less than 8 of 10 comparable gas versions in my regional market. This was a private sale, no EV rebates, and there was price parity. It wasn't even my only option like this, my local market has enough 2020/2021/2022 Ioniqs, Leafs, and Bolts that I had a hard time choosing our second car.
Change is here in the market, I hope attitudes change with it. Because I'm a bit sick of every Facebook ad for an EV being nothing but laughing faces and ignorant comments.
How much would a replacement battery for your cars cost should the worst happen?
For my Chevy, which is out of warranty now, but amazingly still working with little to degradation, it would be around $15000 CAD for a new replacement battery at the dealer. Less if I can source the used part from a wreck and goto my own mechanic.
For the Soul, I have no idea, but I'm 140,000km or 5 years away from being exposed to it.
Just for context, a motor replacement for an ICE car can run anywhere from $5500-$14000 CAD according to JD power and associates.
Battery failure is an interesting problem, dead cells can reduce the range of the car, but is my Bolt with a 300km range useless? Probably not. The batteries can be pulled for home backup uses as well if the failure isn't catastrophic. When an ICE engine fails, we salvage the parts, EVs have that too. There is a huge community around replacing and upgrading NISSAN leaf batteries, for example, they can be upgraded for half what I mentioned here.
Plus battery cost is still dropping rapidly, while the longevity has been increasing. A lot of refinement of the tech has been going on the last 10 years.
CATL is producing a battery with a million mile 15 year, 80% charge warranty that is only a bit less energy dense than current batteries. At 15 years, if your battery is 79.9% Soc, they do a full replacement.
For context, CATL is not some start up making a big promise, they're one of the biggest battery manufacturers in the world and this battery is in production now, headed to EVs in a year or two. This tech ends battery failure anxiety, and will guarantee batteries outlive the useful life of the car.
Do you think people could intentionally degrade their battery to get a replacement before the warranty runs out? I don't know how one would do this but it would be on my mind if I owned an EV.
This doesn't seen feasible without damaging or bypassing something that could likely be discovered later when looking at any data collected while charging. This sounds like a good way to wind up with a broken car and no warranty.
Not just ICE, it's the hybrid:
The new Frontera is available either as a hybrid with 48-volt technology or fully electric. The Frontera Hybrid has a 100 hp 1.2-litre turbocharged petrol engine developed specifically for hybrid use. This operates in combination with a 21kW (28 hp) electric motor and an electrified six-speed dual clutch transmission, so that fuel consumption and CO2 emissions are significantly lower compared to a conventionally powered model. In addition, the Frontera Hybrid will also be available with a 136 hp 1.2 turbo engine.
I initially thought no one would buy the ice, but hybrid is a different story.
https://www.encycarpedia.com/vauxhall/24-frontera-hybrid-136-suv
51mpg is pretty fucking good for a SUV...
And while England is denser than America, there's a lot of areas without charging. I could see the hybrid still doing better at the same price.
Reminder that gallons in the US are different than the UK. 51 UK MPG ≈ 42.5 US MPG.
Like in the US, and what toyota has always known, hybrids are a vastly better option. Entire vehicle is lighter, so tires last much longer, no range anxiety or issues, no expensive house mods if you need a higher speed charger at home, no need to plug in, which can be near impossible if you live in an apartment, and when the battery in a hybrid goes bad, they're WAY cheaper and easier to replace.
I replaced my 75 pound prius hybrid battery myself in an afternoon. The new oem battery cost me $3,000. Hell of a lot better than having to tow it to a shop and spending $15,000 to get a 1,000 pound battery replaced. My hybrids prius last tires lasted me 55,000 miles and they're cheap $65 tires. Nissan leaf tires have been reported last people just 20,000 to 30,000 miles and those are one of the smaller, lighter evs. The tires you're supposed to buy for tesla sedans are like $700 a set.
Is replacing batteries common for hybrid cars?
Most batteries last about 1000+/- cycles, so person driving a plug-in hybrid car mostly electric might face a bad battery after only three years (assuming daily full charge). This is just my personal calculation, I've never really heard any reports on this issue.
I'm talking non plug in. Plug in ones are bigger and heavier by a fair amount.
As to wear stuff, your numbers are way off. Cycle count is more around 2500 now, but that's complete charge and discharge. No hybrids or pure evs like letting you use a battery range that big, so the batteries will last a lot longer. My hybrid battery lasted about 13 years and over 200,000 miles before needing replaced.
Thank you!
My issue is mainly that my landlord gets awfully silent whenever I ask for a charger in my garage. And street side charging is cumbersome and expensive. There are no fast chargers in my area and the slow ones are only usable for four hours.
Do you need a full fast charger? I went for months with a 40km commute and only the wall charger, overnight was enough. A 240volt laundry outlet can do it too, for much cheaper than a full charger install.
But yea, renters need support with this, regulating inclusion, building code changes, or incentives to landlords for installation, or public chargers. I don't know what the solution is, probably a mix, but it can't come soon enough.
You can even tap off the 240v and leave the dryer plugged in with a smart adapter. It only charges the car when the dryer is not running.
Thank you for solving my charging hassle at my parents rental. I mean that, this is great. I see there are even cheaper cable splitters, I wonder how they hold up for splitting car/dryer.
No problem mate. The article goes into it a bit with the cheaper splitters. They either aren't UL listed, so maybe electronically unsafe, or they allow power draw over both outlets at once, which will trip you breaker if someone starts the dryer while the car is charging.
This one is electrically sound and "set it and forget it," but is pricier.
Well sir, it looks like the electronically sound one is still less expensive than a house fire. So I'm inclined towards it.
Normal one would be ok, but there's nothing and I don't want to pay for my neighbor's commute.
I'm not sure what you mean about paying for your neighbour. Do you cover electricity for the whole building or something?
No, but it's a shared garage and a normal outlet could be used for whatever.
But I might have misunderstood your answer.
if renting would be a choice not a necessity for most people this wouldn't be the issue it is today and would also solve a hell of a lot of other problems
Charging for people that live in apartments just sucks. This issue has to be dealt with for EVs to succeed on a larger scale.
In Copenhagen there are a lot of options for street charging. Yes, it might be more expensive than a private charger, but overall prices have come down quite a bit. And then again, if you insist on the luxury of owning a car in the city, you can afford that
In hindsight I wouldn't have bought the charing unit. Much cheaper to go with a plain 240v outlet and compatible cord
Look at what the panel max capacity is. If the panel is 150-200A then adding a level 2 charger isn’t that expensive (~$1500) typically. A level 3 runs ~ $3K. Most systems aren’t maxing 150A and definitely not 200A. Your landlord might be thinking it would be a LOT more, see next paragraph.
However, if the panel needs an upgrade then the price goes way up, $6K-$10K+, just for the panel upgrade. If service needs to be re-run to add more power to the building then the price is even more (and very hard to estimate without being on site). Obviously, those are very ballpark because each building’s system is different.
I think the capacity should be there, they just refuse to answer. The building is from 2010. My plan is moving anyway so I didn't put too much effort in. But that plan has been a plan for quite some time.
If this comes to the states as a Jeep and close to this price point, they are going to sell the hell out of this.
Yeah, and it'll have that Jeep "quality," too. No thanks.
I'd rather ride a pogo stick. Which in all fairness would also probably be more reliable.
Yeah, this is where I worry. Most of their issues, historically at least m, were with the engine and/or transmission. The BEV potentially solves both of those issues. However, RAM is having a wave of problems with their newer sensors. It’s not a great situation.
Stellantis vehicles in the states are doing shit sales because everyone in the states knows they make terrible vehicles that fall apart too soon, which would have been fine if they charged less for them, but they want to have the bad quality, along with a premium price tag.
The price parity only due to regulations requiring minimum percentage of new cars to be zero or low emission.
More likely its because Stellantis is doing terribly financially and has to find some hook to get cars out the door.
Which means nothing to a customer looking for a BEV.
Sure, but the article is claiming EV's are now as cheap as ICE, which isn't the case. The price parity is a result of subsidies and mandates. In Calif. we reached price "parity" a long time ago.