this post was submitted on 15 Oct 2023
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After outcry over Ukraine, big business muted on Israel-Hamas war (www.aljazeera.com)
submitted 1 year ago by yogthos@lemmy.ml to c/usa@lemmy.ml
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[โ€“] Telorand@reddthat.com 13 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Yeah, because unlike Russia trying to invade a country that was generally minding its own business, both Israel and Hamas suck. Both of them are bad guys who have committed massive war crimes.

Intelligent people have been calling for Palestinian freedom for a while, seeing the ongoing war crimes of israel and credulous claims to the land, but that freedom should not come at the cost of committing war crimes themselves.

Publicly supporting Israel would alienate an entire demographic who see that it's a fucked up mess with no winners, and publicly supporting Palestine would be like saying, "I support the recent actions of the Hamas," while also pissing off the Christians who think Israel is Yahweh's special little guy.

There's no way to make a marketable sound bite that encapsulates all that nuance, and I'm glad that businesses have the good graces to STFU for once.

[โ€“] mookulator@mander.xyz 5 points 1 year ago

๐Ÿ’ฏ

[โ€“] masquenox@lemmy.ml 5 points 1 year ago (1 children)

but that freedom should not come at the cost of committing war crimes themselves.

What do you think this is? Star Wars? What did you think anti-colonialist warfare is really like in real life? It's messy - did you really think that the French Resistance during WW2 only killed Nazis? The Allies themselves slaughtered hundreds of thousands of civilians, yet I don't see too many people "both-siding" that conflict.

And btw... Palestinians were minding their own business until Israel (and it's western enablers) clocked in.

[โ€“] Telorand@reddthat.com 0 points 1 year ago (1 children)

What do you think this is? Star Wars? What did you think anti-colonialist warfare is really like in real life?

And what is wrong with my statement? Is it justified to commit warcrimes against civilians, because you've had warcrimes committed against you? An eye for an eye? Fuck that. It might be messy, but "messy" is not a rational justification for warcrimes. Period. Both sides have committed them, both sides suck. The citizens on both sides deserve to live their lives in peace, free from their governments' propaganda and warmongering.

The Allies themselves slaughtered hundreds of thousands of civilians, yet I don't see too many people "both-siding" that conflict.

"Nobody has called them out to date," is not a rational justification for why it shouldn't be done now. I'm not familiar with WW2 history, but if that's true, I would gladly stand in opposition to that, too.

And btw... Palestinians were minding their own business until Israel (and it's western enablers) clocked in.

Still. Not. Justification. For. Warcrimes. Unless you can prove that it is just and rational to kill civilians, it doesn't matter if they were minding their own business.

[โ€“] masquenox@lemmy.ml 3 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Is it justified to commit warcrimes against civilians, because youโ€™ve had warcrimes committed against you?

You want to go and lecture people suffering colonial genocide how to resist said colonial genocide in a way that doesn't discomfort you?

Be my guest... hell, if you take a shipment of 7.62x39 with you, they might even have a reason to listen to you.

I would gladly stand in opposition to that, too.

A bit late for that, don't you think? Just like it's a bit late to "stand in opposition" when this particular colonial genocide began all the way back in 1949.

Wanna know one thing that it's never too late for? Questioning why you have been drenched in narratives surrounding Hamas's "crimes" (real, perceived and/or invented) while you have zero context regarding the long, long list of atrocities committed by Israel since 1949 nor the even larger atrocities committed by Israel's western backers - you know... the same backers that are drenching you in these narratives?

It's never too late to figure out who it is that is manipulating you - and why.

[โ€“] Telorand@reddthat.com 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

You want to go and lecture people suffering colonial genocide how to resist said colonial genocide in a way that doesn't discomfort you?

Be my guest... hell, if you take a shipment of 7.62x39 with you, they might even have a reason to listen to you.

Way to avoid the question. For anyone that cares about civilians, the answer is, "No, it's never justified." That doesn't mean it's easy or simple, but it is nonetheless true. However, I do not pretend to be capable of devising a workable solution to the inherent complexities that exist between the two countries.

A bit late for that, don't you think? Just like it's a bit late to "stand in opposition" when this particular colonial genocide began all the way back in 1949.

No. It is never too late to decry war crimes, since people in power seem eager to repeat past mistakes and borrowideas from the past. I may not have been alive, but that doesn't mean I can't stand against the idea of it.

Wanna know one thing that it's never too late for? Questioning why you have been drenched in narratives surrounding Hamas's "crimes" (real, perceived and/or invented) while you have zero context regarding the long, long list of atrocities committed by Israel...

I don't have to question that, because I don't see Israel as the good guy either. The media has an interest in generating traffic and ad revenue, and the government has some kind of interest in maintaining an alliance with Israel (the impetus for which I can only guess). That Israel is just as guilty of warcrimes over the course of many years is not lost on me.

It is not easy to solve what's happening in the middle east right now, but escalation via killing uninvolved civilians isn't the answer, and it will never be the answer.

[โ€“] masquenox@lemmy.ml 3 points 1 year ago

Way to avoid the question

I'm not avoiding the question - you are avoiding the entire reality of the situation. The colonized does not require your approval or oversight to wage war against colonizers.

devising a workable solution to the inherent complexities that exist between the two countries.

What complexities? Why are people all of a sudden pretending that western colonialism - and the resistance against it - is suddenly a "new" thing?

(the impetus for which I can only guess)

Again... there is no mystery here - Israel has always been a western-backed colonialist project. No ifs, ands or buts. Where is the mystery?

but escalation via killing uninvolved civilians

If we cared about "civilians," wouldn't we be concerned about colonialism in the first place? No? Then I guess we're only concerned when said "civilians" belonging to the colonizer side start dying, eh?

[โ€“] jet@hackertalks.com 1 points 1 year ago

Agreeing with the other poster, it's a catch-22 from a corporate perspective. If they make any position they're going to alienate the other side, both sides are extremely vocal. There's nothing that can be said from a corporate friendly perspective that would help the corporation. So they're not going to say anything.

Hell look at McDonald's... Different franchises went different on this position, and they're fighting each other. The brand is eating itself. There's no way a corporation wants to weigh in on this