No...fucking...shit...
this post was submitted on 24 Oct 2023
469 points (94.8% liked)
Technology
59440 readers
3553 users here now
This is a most excellent place for technology news and articles.
Our Rules
- Follow the lemmy.world rules.
- Only tech related content.
- Be excellent to each another!
- Mod approved content bots can post up to 10 articles per day.
- Threads asking for personal tech support may be deleted.
- Politics threads may be removed.
- No memes allowed as posts, OK to post as comments.
- Only approved bots from the list below, to ask if your bot can be added please contact us.
- Check for duplicates before posting, duplicates may be removed
Approved Bots
founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
I dunno. The musky chodelet has avoided consequences for his actions so far. I doubt there will be any significant change or punishment for tesla.
His simps will just run interference for him. Stupid shit like "well yeah range is lower because , it's science bro."
load more comments
(5 replies)
"If we are investigated and it turns out we lied to get more sales, it could hurt our sales if we can't continue to lie about our products."
I get where they're coming from.
If there's a probe that results in no substantial findings, it would likely still impact sales for some period of time, simply because there was a probe. In that case, Tesla's concern is justified.
If, however, they do find that Tesla is exaggerating their range, then I hope the lawsuit is spectacular and expensive.
My parents have a Tesla (they bought it used), and its range is shite.
Just goes to show that you should not create a situation where a probe like that is justified. This is all Tesla's own fault.
load more comments
(4 replies)
“…But investigating my frauding will affect my ability to continue profiting off my fraud.”
-Elon probably
That's the idea...
Good. Now stop lying about shit.
Cry more you little incompetent trust fund shit. (Elon, not OP)
This is an SEC filing. They are required to disclose to investors that this is going on and could impact their investment. Pretty standard stuff. They are not complaining that the feds are hurting their business or scaring people away from buying their cars - at least not in this filing. All they are saying is there’s this significant thing going on that could have an impact on the company’s value.
It would probably be smart for Tesla to settle this quickly and quietly because their range estimates are completely bonkers. Some kind of “agree to disagree on testing methods and we will pay up and do a better job” thing without this going too far. A VW diesel-gate kind of situation would be devastating to them. Elon is such a polarizing figure to begin with and there are some pretty good EV alternatives out there now. The only real killer feature they have left is the Supercharger network. Before anyone says FSD, it’s a scam and it doesn’t work.
I might bring wrong here but I'm pretty sure the claim in the title is incorrect?
Tesla is under numerous investigations which are all disclosed in thar same filing, and any one of them could lead to what the title says.
The title makes it sound like it's THIS specific one.
This could do nothing for example, but the AP one could be really bad? Tesla isn't signaling out which one it thinks is the most materially damaging if they have to do something.
I believe you are correct. Maybe they are latching onto the range issue because it affects every Tesla owner, past and present. Also very easy to prove.
Tesla doesn't lie about the EPA range though. It's reproducible even if those aren't "real world" driving. If we want real world driving numbers that's up to the EPA to change the methodology.
Range displayed is always just an estimate anyway, with so many variables. If they've fudged what gets displayed somehow that is clearly bad and we need to know, but the EPA range (edit: on a brand new vehicle) is legit. I dont see how them being wrong on this would be so dire.
I think the AP investigations are a much bigger problem and also impact nearly all Teslas. What if Tesla has to disable AP or can't let people beta test FSD which could grind their data collection to a halt? That seems immensely more material adverse to me
Edit: clarity, but also to add, what if they can't even sell FSD period, and need to refund all sales of it, PLUS damages to owners?
Edit: Just some other thoughts on this only semi related to the actual accusation, but batteries degrade, and Tesla does show a degraded range on their estimates, but maybe we need better laws like EPA ranges must be met for X years. It would force manufactures to declare a range lower than the car is capable of (no one drives below 0%) as they would need a reserve. It would also help offset any variations from the actual EPA test. I believe Tesla warranties the battery for up to 30% degradation over 8 years or X km, so that would get lowered somewhat due to the reserve. I think something like this would be better for consumers overall?
Sort of yes and sort of no.
Tesla displays the vehicles "range" as the EPA range minus any battery degradation. The number doesn't fluctuate otherwise.
However, if you plus a destination into the trip computer, it actually computes the estimated efficiency and you can estimate the range from it.
Every other EV instead has a "guess-o-meter" which estimates the remaining range of your car based on current driving habits and derived efficiency by looking at the recent X number of miles driven.. this gives you a good range estimate which automatically factors in recent weather, terrain and driving habits. It also takes into consideration your current battery health.
Only the trip computer is particularly accurate. Tesla has theirs, while everyone can download the app abetterrouteplanner.
Personally, I think it's a relatively non-issue. Rather, there is a methodological difference between estimating the range. Gas cars, otoh existed for 100 years without having a range estimator.
Exactly. I don't think Tesla showing the EPA range after degradation and state of charge is anything to be concerned about. If there's a problem with doing that, then the problem lies with the EPA/regulations.
I'm not sure what this whole different numbers at 100% vs at 50% is unless they do turn on a guess-o-meter if you reach 50%, or maybe Tesla is fudging the battery degradation to show a higher 100% and then adjusts it as you start driving, but either way, I don't think it's the big deal this articles title is trying to make it out to be. The number at 100% will be accurate to the EPA test cycle on a new vehicle, and I think that's the critical piece here. They aren't lying about that. The numbers have been audited.
I do still think we need better more accurate EPA tests.
Edit: Actually if they are lying about the level of degradation to fudge the numbers, that could impact warranty claims and the 30% threshold, so that would be bad.
load more comments
(1 replies)
Yeah, you definitely need to be careful and the conditions need to be close to ideal, but I routinely get the rated range in a model 3 without any trouble. It's like any other car though - elevation change, weather and driving habits play big roles in efficiency. The car also has nearly 500hp on the top end so it's very easy to kill your trip efficiency with even just one or two bursts of high acceleration.
If people find out that we lied, they will know what we lied!
Is it mean to say I want this company to go bankrupt?
Lying about your shit product will do that, yeah
Oh no, gosh, what a shame. Anyway....
Oh. Anyway...
Good.
To put some numbers on it..
I don't think anyone in the US tests EV like TeslaBjorn to make a spreadsheet about it, although I guess you could find out the EPA ranges of all those cars, convert km to miles, and get a reasonable one.. percentages would be different as WLTP is a different test (it tends to exaggerate ranges, so will be higher, although nothing like the clusterfuck that NEDC was).
Polestar must be worried too.
it's such bullshit though claimed range 540km, actual range 400km in ideal temp conditions. thats not a small exaggeration. it's straight up bullshit.
Yeah. Lying does that.
Yeah that's the point dipshit
That's the point, yes.
This is the best summary I could come up with:
Tesla says it has received requests for information and subpoenas from the US Department of Justice related to potential personal benefits violations, the advertised range of its vehicles and personnel decisions.
The Wall Street Journal in September reported that federal prosecutors are investigating perks provided to Chief Executive Officer Elon Musk going back as far back as 2017, including a project described as a glass house for Musk.
Earlier this year, Reuters reported that Tesla had created a special “diversions team” to avoid dealing with complaints from customers about their vehicle ranges.
The filing warned of “the possibility of a material adverse impact on our business” should the government pursue an enforcement action.
The subpoenas add to a mounting number of government probes into the electric-vehicle maker.
In September, the US Equal Employment Opportunity Commission sued Tesla alleging that it has been “tolerating widespread and ongoing racial harassment of its Black employees” at its Fremont, California, plant.
The original article contains 196 words, the summary contains 155 words. Saved 21%. I'm a bot and I'm open source!
“If we can’t lie about what it can do, how can we sell our product?” is an absolutely wild admission.
tesla warns that being outed for lying about range will make people not buy their cars.
Yeah, if I was investigated for fraud, it would also have an adverse impact on my business as well. We should just never investigate fraud then I guess.
Oh no, anyways...
What are you going to get in this weekend?
Don't tempt the US government with a good consequence 😁
Careful Elon the shit flying out of your mouth might make dingleberries on those pubes you got growing on your face
Oh my
Itt: Lemmy learns about sec filings.
Uh… yeah. That’s the idea. That’s what happens when you falsely advertise.
Counting the days till you eat your hat
view more: next ›