this post was submitted on 17 Feb 2025
36 points (95.0% liked)

World News

33398 readers
1013 users here now

News from around the world!

Rules:

founded 5 years ago
MODERATORS
Rumblestiltskin@lemmy.ml
AgreeableLandscape@lemmy.ml
jackmarxist@lemmy.ml
zephyreks@lemmy.ml
OurToothbrush@lemmy.ml
36
Revealed: Trump’s confidential plan to put Ukraine in a stranglehold (www.telegraph.co.uk)
submitted 3 days ago by yogthos@lemmy.ml to c/worldnews@lemmy.ml
35 comments fedilink hide all child comments
 

https://archive.ph/01hpG

top 35 comments
sorted by: hot top controversial new old
[–] CapriciousDay@lemmy.ml 11 points 3 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago)

Republican Senator Lindsey Graham suggested at the Munich Security Conference over the weekend that Trump’s demand was a clever ploy to bolster declining popular support for the Ukrainian cause. “He can go to the American people and say, ‘Ukraine is not a burden, it is a benefit,’” he said.

I continue to be amazed by how frequently the entire spectrum from ~~mainstream liberal~~ regular conservative to ~~Trumpist conservative~~ fascist fall back on a line which is tantamount to "they're not tricking you, they're tricking someone else! Totally trustworthy!"

[–] Magnus@lemmy.ml 2 points 2 days ago (1 children)

At this point they’re just hoping the insane Nazis take over Ukraine.

[–] yogthos@lemmy.ml 8 points 2 days ago (1 children)

That already happened back in 2014 though.

[–] Magnus@lemmy.ml -3 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago) (1 children)

True Edit It is a shame that the Russian are just supporting a different group of insane Nazis though 🤷‍♂️

[–] yogthos@lemmy.ml 5 points 2 days ago (1 children)

except that's not what's happening though 🤷‍♂️

[–] Magnus@lemmy.ml -2 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago) (1 children)

https://www.arabnews.com/node/1359486/amp

She’s a Nazi or at least worked with far right governments here. Sorry it is what’s happening

[–] yogthos@lemmy.ml 7 points 2 days ago (1 children)

Europe has always been full of nazis, that's not the fault of Russia. In fact, if you want somebody to blame for this then look no further than the US https://www.counterpunch.org/2020/10/16/the-u-s-did-not-defeat-fascism-in-wwii-it-discretely-internationalized-it/

[–] Magnus@lemmy.ml 0 points 2 days ago (1 children)

Yes I know I live here. The guy who defended her in the article I sent you.

Don’t be as weird as the liberals who defend the Ukrainian guys with sonnenrad tattoos.

[–] yogthos@lemmy.ml 5 points 2 days ago (2 children)

I'm not being weird here. I'm simply pointing out that the nazi problem in Europe is homegrown. Russia was perfectly happy to work with European libs, but they chose to make an enemy of Russia instead. Don't act surprised that Russia sees Europe as an enemy and working to destabilize it now.

[–] Magnus@lemmy.ml 1 points 2 days ago (2 children)

Just because the libs are your enemy doesn’t mean you need to support the far right. Putin is an authoritarian and extremely socially conservative. I think the Ukraine war was a complete waste of life for both sides of the conflict. I’m not happy that Russia is winning though. I’m just a normal citizen getting squeezed by various authoritarian forces rn whether they be Russian or American. I never voted for any of these freaks and I’m not a fan of any of them. Idk what you believe in or where you live but getting your civil liberties shat on whether it’s by NATO forcing us into shitty wars that screwed our economy or having Putin funding a bunch of racist transphobes who want to in the hope that they’ll be his useful idiots fucking sucks. I’m not arguing about whether the Nazis in Austria are home grown obviously they are it’s fucking Austria. I am just telling you that they work with the Russians. Whether you want to believe that is up to you but it’s true. As a normal citizen this shit fucking sucks just like it sucks for people in Russia it sucks for people in Ukraine. I wish we weren’t run by power hungry freaks but that’s the world we live in.

You are right all of this shit was avoidable. I still don’t feel like getting punished for this shit.

[–] AntiOutsideAktion@lemmy.ml 5 points 2 days ago (1 children)

Just because the libs are your enemy doesn’t mean you need to support the far right.

Genuinely getting sick of western chauvinist libs pretending you must support right wing authoritarianism based entirely on having analysis detached from western chauvinism. It's fucking baby brain.

[–] Magnus@lemmy.ml 1 points 2 days ago (1 children)

I mean if you’re in bed with the FPÖ you support the far right.

[–] AntiOutsideAktion@lemmy.ml 3 points 2 days ago (1 children)

Actually now I'm thinking I read that entirely wrong. I thought you were directing that criticism towards yog, not Putin. Blame it on having just got up. Sorry about saying you did a baby brain.

[–] Magnus@lemmy.ml 2 points 2 days ago

I mean unless yog is putin then no I wasn’t attacking them personally.

The internet is a crappy medium for communication, but I’m a broke shut in.

[–] yogthos@lemmy.ml 5 points 2 days ago (1 children)

The rational position for Russia is to work with European parties that will work with them. It's that simple. Russia hasn't been imposing any ideology in Europe, but they will obviously support political parties that aren't openly hostile to them. Why wouldn't they do that exactly?

[–] Magnus@lemmy.ml -1 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago) (1 children)

Austria is neutral we aren’t taking part in the war in Ukraine….We even fined the United States when they entered our country carrying weapons that were destined for Ukraine.

Putin is an authoritarian, this shouldn’t be a controversial take no matter how you feel about NATO, but you’re right he does fund the section of the bourgeoisie that serve his material interests in Austria that happens to be the right and far right. I think that fucking sucks.

Why should I support far right racist parties who are the literal descendents of the SS? If you’re working with and funding a party you are obviously trying to impose some kind of ideology if he hated Nazis so much he wouldn’t be hanging out with them. He’s a cynical political actor clinging to his power and wealth.

I’ll reiterate this once again could the war in Ukraine have been stopped YES do I support foreign governments meddling in other peoples politics NO. This goes for both the United States and Russia. Both parties are guilty of doing this and they’re both as shitty as each other. My sympathy goes to the normal people who are wrapped up in bourgeoisie power struggles getting sent to their deaths or having their testicles blown up by landmines so that a bunch of assholes in comfy offices can go to their holiday mansions by the Black Sea or Hawaii

[–] yogthos@lemmy.ml 4 points 2 days ago (2 children)

Austria is neutral we aren’t taking part in the war in Ukraine

That's not actually true is it though https://www.bmeia.gv.at/en/austrian-embassy-to-lithuania/news/detail/austria-stands-with-ukraine-as-long-as-it-takes

Putin is an authoritarian, this shouldn’t be a controversial take no matter how you feel about NATO, but you’re right he does fund the section of the bourgeoisie that serve his material interests in Austria that happens to be the right and far right. I think that fucking sucks.

Authoritarianism is a completely meaningless term. Every government has authority by virtue of having a monopoly on legalized violence. That said though, Putin enjoys far higher public approval than any European government.

Why should I support far right racist parties who are the literal descendents of the SS?

Nobody suggested anything of the sort. What I pointed out was that mainstream parties are hostile towards Russia, as the link above clearly shows. Putin is a cynical actor, but so are European politicians. I don't actually see much difference here.

I’ll reiterate this once again could the war in Ukraine have been stopped YES do I support foreign governments meddling in other peoples politics NO.

Europe has a long history of meddling in foreign governments. Georgia is a great recent example where European politicians travelled and protested the election results. The reality is that Europe is run by capitalists just like US and Russia are, and it seems that politics in Europe are shifting further to the right than in Russia at the moment.

[–] Magnus@lemmy.ml 1 points 2 days ago (1 children)

I‘m also aware that humanitarian aid sounds sketchy, hell it might be but officially Austria is providing no material support to the armed forces of Ukraine, just fyi I also think we should give a place to Russian deserters as well which some libs here probably wouldn’t want to do.

Did I say Europe isn’t run by capitalists? I’ll say it again I think all these people suck and need to go away. I was against the war from the get go and over a million people dying for these shitty people sucks. Idk why you are trying to deflect from the fact that Russia also supports shitty Nazis (guess what when a country is run by the bourgeois far right ideologies flourish)

I think Russia is still more right wing than Europe we still have politicians here who don’t believe in trad wives and hating the gays, even if they are liberal I do prefer that to Putins blend of social conservatism/the church/ capitalism,and why do you expect me to be happy that Europe is moving in the same direction?

Anyways I feel like we disagree on somethings and that’s fine, just don’t pretend Putin is some kind of based Bolshevik he’s far from it.

[–] yogthos@lemmy.ml 4 points 2 days ago (1 children)

I'm not trying to deflect from anything. I've repeatedly pointed out that Russia will work with whatever parties take pro Russian stance in Europe. They don't care if those parties are on the left, the centre, or the right.

I think Russia is still more right wing than Europe we still have politicians here who don’t believe in trad wives and hating the gays, even if they are liberal I do prefer that to Putins blend of social conservatism/the church/ capitalism,and why do you expect me to be happy that Europe is moving in the same direction?

It seems that your definition of right wing is being socially conservative which it certainly is. However, in terms of economic policies, the picture is quite different. CPRF is far more left than pretty much any party in Europe and they have a strong representation in the government. Russia never fully embraced liberal policies and the state remains at the commanding heights of the economy. A 2023 World Bank study gives a pretty good overview of this. In particular, it distinguishes between businesses of the state (BOS), that are at least 10% government owned by some government, and state owned enterprises (SOE), which are majority owned or more, and controlled, by the government. And another study has a chart showing SOE in Russia compared with China. Russia also managed to retain many of the labor rights it inherited from USSR. Vast majority of Russians see USSR and by extension communism in a positive light.

To be clear, I don't think Putin is some kind of a Bolshevik or that he's on the left. Putin and his party are capitalists who are acting in their own national interest. However, the overall picture in Russia is more complex than that.

[–] Magnus@lemmy.ml 2 points 2 days ago (1 children)

I would say being socially conservative makes Russia more right wing than the state I currently live in. We still have social democracy here as well (although obviously neo libs want to gut it) and I would rather live here than in Russia right now. Judging by all rich ass Russians i have known here it seems to be the case for them as well (Then again borders only ever really exist for us plebs.)

I literally hated all that lib/nazi Russians are orcs bullshit. I’m sure Russia would be a pretty awesome place if Putin didn’t hate queers and women and try push the church down people’s throats but sadly he kinda does do that. So I’m not in a rush to pack my bags and move yet.

[–] yogthos@lemmy.ml 3 points 2 days ago (1 children)

The whole dive back into religion after the fall of USSR was an absolutely terrible thing to happen to Russia. There's no question about that. I wouldn't be in a rush to pack my bags and move to Russia either.

However, what I'm saying is that Europe could have normal relations with Russia even if values differ. In my opinion, Europe could learn a lot from the way China approaches geopolitics. They don't try to impose their values on others or create camps over some supposed shared values. They try to find ways to have win-win relationships with other countries while having mutual respect.

[–] Magnus@lemmy.ml 1 points 2 days ago (1 children)

Zhou Enlai was an interesting politician I agree. I still think sexual freedom and women’s rights and the right to openly criticise your government aren’t some niche western value though and I’m sure lots of Russian citizens would enjoy having some of the same freedoms I have.

[–] yogthos@lemmy.ml 2 points 2 days ago (1 children)

The point here is that it's not up to you to impose your values on others. People in Europe can run things any way they like, but they have to learn to respect how other countries are run going forward. It's up to people of Russia to figure these things out for themselves.

[–] Magnus@lemmy.ml 1 points 1 day ago (1 children)

I’m not in the position to impose anything on any one.

[–] yogthos@lemmy.ml 3 points 1 day ago (1 children)

I'm not talking about you personally here obviously. However, it's clear that western countries very much do try to impose their values on others. This includes imposing values by force through coups, invasions, and economic warfare. Portrayal of liberal democracy as the sole legitimate form of governance amounts to nothing more than modern-day marketing for colonialism. It serves as a pretext for justifying Western atrocities masquerading as benevolent civilizing missions. I'm saying that Europe has to abandon this mindset going forward.

[–] Magnus@lemmy.ml 1 points 1 day ago

I’m aware of all of this.

[–] Magnus@lemmy.ml 1 points 2 days ago (1 children)

Austria has taken in more than 90,000 displaced Ukrainians and provided over 124 million euros in humanitarian aid to Ukraine. Austria also signed a framework agreement worth 600 million euros for the construction of three hospitals in Ukraine.

Yes we are clearly supporting the war machine.

[–] yogthos@lemmy.ml 5 points 2 days ago (1 children)

Austria has also provided military aid to Ukraine. It's not nearly as much as other European countries, but it's clearly direct involvement in the war effort

And of course, the stance of mainstream politicians in Austria is hostile to Russia. They describe it as a war of aggression where Russia invaded Ukraine completely unprovoked. If you want to see an actually neutral stance than look at Slovakia as an example.

[–] Magnus@lemmy.ml 0 points 2 days ago (1 children)

Oh look it’s Rosenkranz the far right politician also in the SS Party who I support though because he think Russia good. Also obviously it’s NATO being rat fucks but according to the article all those things are officially not heading directly to Ukraine. I don’t want Austria to be supporting Ukraine militarily I kinda don’t mind giving people humanitarian help though. I know that can be used as a backdoor for more nefarious shit.

The first article 404d I should be working so I’m not gonna look for it rn

The third one says were helping people demine their fields. Idk could be doing a lot worse I guess

I’ll reiterate this war sucks call me a chauvinist or whatever it makes no fucking difference as I’m literally just some guy with 0 money and political influence. I just don’t like the party that was founded by former SS members and if I see them cosying up to Putin that’s sus to me. this war was fucking dumb and all it’s help the far right everywhere

[–] yogthos@lemmy.ml 4 points 2 days ago (1 children)

I get what you're saying. What I'm saying is that Putin would've been happy to work with the left in Austria the way he is working with SMER in Slovakia for example. What Russia cares about is the attitude of the parties towards Russia. This is a rational policy for Russia to pursue. The real tragedy in all this is that Europeans allowed the neoliberal centre to drag themselves into a proxy war with Russia. Now we're seeing the fallout from all this idiocy hitting Europe.

[–] Magnus@lemmy.ml 2 points 2 days ago (1 children)

I also see what you’re saying and I can see why the left didn’t really want to cosy up to Putin. After all he’d been funding the people who literally want to beat the shit out of them dox them for a while. These ties go back before 2014.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raiffeisenbank_(Russia)

This bank is notorious for funding right wing politicians in Austria they do big business in Russia so do a lot of other sketchy right wing fucks.

I agree that the Ukraine war didn’t need to escalate to the point that it did and the United States is as much to blame for the fucking shit show we are in now. Capitalism fucking sucks and normal people are currently getting squeezed and lots of them are running right like lemmings the whole thing pisses me off. Anyways I need to actually focus on this shit I should be doing right now and need to take a break from posting, I wish you all the best and I appreciate all News posts you do and I find them interesting.

[–] yogthos@lemmy.ml 3 points 2 days ago

I agree with all that. It's a shitty situation all around, and Europe put itself in a rather unenviable situation by allowing the US to drive its policy since the Cold War ended. Hopefully people will start waking up to that now. In my view, the smartest thing Europe could do at this point would be to improve relations with China and use it as leverage in dealing with Russia.

[–] Magnus@lemmy.ml 1 points 2 days ago

This has been going on long before 2014

[–] tazzy@lemm.ee 1 points 2 days ago (1 children)

The whole ending the war has nothing to do with Russia or Ukraine - this is all Being done so for Trump so he can say look I ended the war. Doesn’t matter what happens to Ukraine, Trump just wants to to this for himself

[–] yogthos@lemmy.ml 7 points 2 days ago

The US never cared about Ukraine, Trump is just pulling back the curtain on that.