this post was submitted on 13 Jun 2023
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38
important rulepost (lemmy.world)
submitted 2 years ago by dsmaster7173@lemmy.world to c/196@lemmy.blahaj.zone
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[–] Jean_le_Flambeur@discuss.tchncs.de 4 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 children)

Agree with you in general, but I think a lot if people here are not really informed what differences there are materialistic ideologies.

Yes, Stalin bad.

But Guevara is not Stalin.

Marx is not che

Engels is not Marx

China is not communist.

Marxism is not materialism

Socialism is not communism

Also the amount of people bringing the "the 3 times people tried socialism were bad, so the whole ideology must be bad" argument are way to high IMHO.

How many times was capitalism tried? How many times it worked out? Is the USA a "functioning" state with all the oppression, racism, greed, invading other countries out of monetarian interest and environment destruction?

While I agree with you, that oppression is bad, no matter what the oppressor calls himself, we should talk about policies without resorting to dogmas and generalising people in favor of fear the hegemonic class is propagating to stay in power.

[–] Sekoia@lemmy.blahaj.zone 5 points 2 years ago (2 children)

Yeah, that's not the tankies here; these are "North Korea is a great country, actually" tankies.

[–] TrashcanMarxist@sh.itjust.works 0 points 2 years ago (1 children)

Should probably listen to Blowback Season 3.

Not to say they're a perfect country but to pretend that anyone in the West can critique them when their material conditions are dictated by the actions of the West is just comical.

If you aren't a materialist, what are you even doing? As if history happens in the realm of pure thought.....

[–] Sekoia@lemmy.blahaj.zone 2 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 children)

The material conditions forcing North Korea to make work camps

Bugger off, tankie

[–] TrashcanMarxist@sh.itjust.works 0 points 2 years ago (1 children)

Something something worlds largest prison population?

Again, it's not like North Korea is some shining example or anything, but to pretend that the west has the moral high ground here is laughable.

Again, listen to Blowback Season 3, recognize that their country was basically bombed to the stone age Curtis le may style and then maybe reevaluate, just a little, the chauvinist attitude.

DPRK is not a great country but it's not as if they were ever given a chance either.

[–] Sekoia@lemmy.blahaj.zone 1 points 2 years ago

Yeah, the US prison system is absolutely abhorrent and counterethical to all the principles it's supposed to hold.

First, the US is basically the only western country like that:tm:, second, more than one thing can be bad. "'North Korea is a great country' is a dumb position", the only (implied) assertion I made about it in my original comment, is still true, even if they got dealt a shit hand (which, so did most of the east after WW2; South Korea was in a pretty similar state (it was actually worse than NK shortly after the Korean war), yet they're doing... much better than NK at least).

Being "basically bombed to the stone age" doesn't mean a dictatorship is inevitable, nor that their government is suddenly blameless; being victimized doesn't mean you can victimize others.

Genuinely, if you take "the west" as a whole and compare it to North Korea... yeah, I do think they have a high ground. No, I'm not saying the west is perfect, far from it. No, I'm not saying communism is automatically bad, I'm totally cool with communists.

Basically my base position is "a functional democracy is the governance system that works the best". Most western states are much closer to that than North Korea (yes, I know what the Electoral College is and why it's bad), so I do think their political system is better.

[–] pleasemakesense@lemmy.world 0 points 2 years ago (1 children)

Also, "anything negative about a communist country is US propaganda"

[–] Vilian@lemmy.ca 1 points 2 years ago

or "russia is correctly in invading ukraine"

[–] tanja@lemmy.blahaj.zone 3 points 2 years ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

Based.

They already have lemmygrad.

Honestly, I don't think we need them here.

[–] Jediotty@beehaw.org 1 points 2 years ago

the have genzdong in there lol

[–] moss@lemmy.blahaj.zone 2 points 2 years ago

Just removed like 40 comments and banned a buncha people.

[–] rowie324@lemmy.blahaj.zone 2 points 2 years ago

tankies more like no thankies

[–] Big_Farto@sh.itjust.works 2 points 2 years ago (1 children)

I got banned from lemmygrad for saying acab means all cops lmao

[–] GarbageShootAlt2@lemmy.ml 0 points 2 years ago (1 children)

Meanwhile anarchist organizing doesn't have cops, it has Agents of Community Defense who definitely aren't cops!

I have nothing against anarchists, but you need to see past slogans to be anything but a useful idiot to neoliberals.

[–] Big_Farto@sh.itjust.works 1 points 2 years ago

I mean any person or entity that enforces oppressive laws is a bastard. The government of China is far from some sort of benevolent state.

[–] boopinsnoots@feddit.nl 1 points 2 years ago (1 children)

I don't know what tankies are and at this point I'm too afraid to ask

[–] JohnDClay@sh.itjust.works 1 points 2 years ago

Usually people who advocate military communism, such as defending tiananmen square, Stalin, and more. Basically it's usually the belief that anything a government professing to be communist does must be good.

[–] BlinkerFluid@lemmy.one 1 points 2 years ago (1 children)

Thank fuck. I thought Lemmy was some ultra militant leftist hellhole before the shift.

I don't like extreme radical left any more than extreme radical right.

Fuck Che Guevara. Read a book.

[–] Coryneform@lemmy.blahaj.zone 1 points 2 years ago (1 children)

what if the book is Che Guevaras "Guerrilla Warfare"

[–] BlinkerFluid@lemmy.one 1 points 2 years ago

Is being a good tactician and being a genocidal, totalitarian extremist an oil and water situation?

He can be both.

[–] 1988Passive_Browsing@lemmy.blahaj.zone 1 points 2 years ago

300 Comments already. Oh my god! Lol.

[–] lazy_digestive@lemmy.blahaj.zone 1 points 2 years ago (1 children)

This comment section is really something uh

[–] Silverstrings@lemmy.blahaj.zone 1 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 children)

Tankies on their way to explain why teaming up with the Nazis to conquer Poland is actually based and totally in line with Marxist philosophy.

[–] proletariatnerd@iusearchlinux.fyi 1 points 2 years ago

Can you give an actual example?

[–] shadowscale@lemmy.blahaj.zone 1 points 2 years ago

there's literally a community called "moretankie196", they should go infest that one instead

[–] Sekoia@lemmy.blahaj.zone 1 points 2 years ago

This post has literally 6 times the comments of the next most-comments post, jesus. Wonder what could have triggered this!

[–] 1988Passive_Browsing@lemmy.blahaj.zone 1 points 2 years ago

I have always wondered why it always says "Kick _" when she is punching instead of kicking. Lol.

[–] TanteRegenbogen@feddit.de 1 points 2 years ago

Why are Blanquists even in the Fediverse? The Fediverse is about decentralization while Blanquists are for the extreme opposite.

[–] flashgnash@lemm.ee 0 points 2 years ago (1 children)

Literally just made an account and am just a Reddit pleb. What exactly are tankies and what is 196? Guessing it's a Lemmy server but otherwise unsure

[–] shadowscale@lemmy.blahaj.zone 1 points 2 years ago

196 is a shitpost sub where you must post something when you vist

a tankie is a authoritarian that believes they're a communist. they support the imperialist invasion of Ukraine, and they deny the tianaman square massacre, where the CCP ran tanks over college students protesting the authoritarian government. they deny a bunch of other atrocities as well, these are the only two i can think of right now.

a lot of tankies are going to be posting an essay by Engles that defends authoritarianism, asserting that authoritarianism is compatible with communism. which, while sure, isn't ideal because one person having power always ends in genocide. well, it doesn't end in genocide, genocide just... happens under authoritarianism.