726
submitted 8 months ago by psychothumbs@lemmy.world to c/world@lemmy.world
top 34 comments
sorted by: hot top controversial new old
[-] uranibaba@lemmy.world 159 points 8 months ago

An interesting precedent that offers a hint of what Tesla could be up against occurred in 1995 when Toys’R’Us entered the Swedish market and initially refused to sign a collective agreement with the retail union, Handelsanställdas Förbund. The company eventually conceded after three months of labor strife, including a number of solidarity strikes when other unions blocked all deliveries, garbage collection, postal service, bank payments, and other vital parts the firm’s operations. The conflict was even supported by unions in many other countries, who encouraged their members to boycott Toys’R’Us products.

Go Sweden's unions!

[-] aes@programming.dev 21 points 8 months ago

Iirc, the company faltered and floundered very badly afterwards. The (now unionized) workers had to say, "it's OK now, we got a contact!", but that message was hard to get out, since it's a lot less sexy than the strife.

They basically wrecked the company, trying to fight the union

[-] wahming@monyet.cc 25 points 8 months ago

They basically wrecked the company, trying to fight the union

Which is exactly how things should go

[-] dojan@lemmy.world 126 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago)

Oh yeah we're gung-ho about our unions here in Sweden. Go IF Metall, fuck their shit up!

Edit: holy shit, it's for not having a kollektivavtal? Why is anyone even working there? Tesla isn't some mum and dad store, it's owned by the richest cunt in the world. There are specific instances where you can forego having a kollektivavtal, but Tesla definitely isn't one of those companies.

Edit2: So a kollektivavtal, a collective agreement, is generally a collection of agreements that worker unions, employers, and employer unions (like Svenskt Näringsliv) have agreed upon, which covers working conditions for your particular line of work. Things like salary negotiations, savings for retirement, remuneration for travel/extra work/graveyard shifts/on-call duty. Insurances in case you get hurt or sick because of your job. Personal/career development. Extra compensation during parental leave. Wellness allowances. The list goes on.

It's a lot, and it looks different depending on what you work with, and where you work. It ensures that the employee has certain guaranteed rights that should the employer withhold, you have legal recourse (usually the union will assist with this) should you need it. Naturally there's also laws backing workers up, so should there not be a kollektivavtal at your workplace, your employer still can't just break the law.

There's no law codified stating that an employer has to ever raise the employee's salary though, for example, so if you work at a place that doesn't have a kollektivavtal, expect to never see a pay bump.

There are of course situations where a kollektivavtal doesn't make any sense. For example, should you start a company and employ yourself a kollektivavtal is a bit overkill.

My first job lacked a kollektivavtal. It was a nice first step into my career, but it had a decent amount of turnover. Generally unless you have a very specific reason to not have one, not having a kollektivavtal is seen kind of as a red flag. Either you're the world's most trustworthy employer (yeah right) or you're up to some real fucking shady shit.

[-] snor10@lemm.ee 22 points 8 months ago

Haha, my Union!

Makes me proud to pay my dues!

[-] dojan@lemmy.world 17 points 8 months ago

How much are your dues?

I’m part of Unionen, and my dues are 235 a month. I’m also on their a-kassa for an extra 140. Thankfully I’ve not had to do much with either party, but I’m glad they’re there.

For Americans; I’m paying ~250$ a year for union and ~$150 a year for income insurance, should I end up losing my job.

[-] snor10@lemm.ee 6 points 8 months ago

Since you're a Swede you can read up on it here:

https://www.ifmetall.se/globalassets/avdelningar/bohuslan-dal/resurser/dokument/ny-medlem/medlemsavgifter-2023.pdf

1.5% of salary before tax, minimum 230 SEK and maximum 633 SEK as of 2023.

[-] dojan@lemmy.world 2 points 8 months ago

Wow! That's better than the 700+ someone mentioned, but it still feels quite hefty!

[-] HERRAX@sopuli.xyz 3 points 8 months ago

I was a member of IF Metall about a decade ago, and back then I recall paying some absurd amount like 700kr+ (for reference I didn't make more than like 20kkr at the time). They were also atrocious to deal with, but hopefully that's just true for my local department.

Unionen on the other hand has been great to deal with from personal experience, and like you said, costs borderline nothing to be a member of.

[-] CptBread@lemmy.world 8 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago)

Never actually worked at a place with a collective agreement... But then again AFAIK they aren't that common within software or gamedev...

(Edit: still part of a union though)

[-] ninjan@lemmy.mildgrim.com 11 points 8 months ago

Pretty common in software these days. TechSverige being the biggest one. Gamedev tends to fall under "up to shady shit" though, a most lucrative industry that offers shit pay is a load of BS.

[-] Lemonparty@lemm.ee 2 points 8 months ago

How are you in a union that doesn't have a collective bargaining agreement? Like how does that even work?

[-] CptBread@lemmy.world 5 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago)

Technically it does have collective agreements just not with the company I work for.

A union, at least in Sweden, isn't tied to a place of work so me working somewhere they don't have a collective agreement isn't that odd. Now it does mean I don't get as much out of my membership but I still do gain some things. Like if my employer screws me over the union is there to help me and fight for me in court if need be. There are also some extra protections like if there is a layoff the company will need to negotiate and justify why I, or anyone else in my union, should be the one to loose their job.

[-] dojan@lemmy.world 3 points 8 months ago

Your workplace can choose to have a collective agreement or not. It doesn't affect whether individual employees are unionised or not.

My first workplace did not have a kollektivavtal. Nothing in our contract said anything about negotiating salaries, meaning you might never see a salary increase (I didn't for the three years I worked there, knew someone who worked there seven years and only saw it once), it basically just complied with Swedish worker laws.

I was in a union, because unions are still useful for e.g. personal development, career advice, legal help, etc. You can be self-employed and be in a union, unions can offer assistance and guidance for self-employed people too.

The argument I see against collective agreements here is that they're "inflexible" and "not easy to apply to small companies" but I've yet to ever read a concrete example of this, so my personal belief is that it's utter bunk. Like I mentioned elsewhere, there are times where not having one can sort of make sense; when you're self-employed, and in a scenario where your contract covers all bases you want it to and you're content not having a kollektivavtal. For example, if you have an incredible salary and you don't ever care to negotiate about it (assuming there's no clause in the contract about it)

If it's a normal workplace, you should have a kollektivavtal. It's common sense.

[-] Tar_alcaran@sh.itjust.works 3 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago)

It's very possible to be in an overarching group. The Netherlands, for example, has two really huge union-federations. You can join them even when they don't have a collective bargaining agreement for your profession. That means you still get legal aid in conflicts with your employer, for example.

[-] SturgiesYrFase@lemmy.ml 7 points 8 months ago
[-] bstix@feddit.dk 20 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago)

Collective agreement.

Technically it's not even necessary to have one in Sweden, but they'll still have to oblige to what the other companies in the sector agrees on, which is why it's also a good reason for a company to participate and get one in the first place.

Basically, companies that don't have collective agreements are sitting at the children's table at the party. Someone as big as Tesla ought to be mature enough to sit with the grown ups. They have no idea of what they're doing in this context and it will end badly for them if they attempt to ignore it.

Elon could decide to act like a toddler, but it'll also mean that Tesla has to fuck off out of the country.

[-] SturgiesYrFase@lemmy.ml 1 points 8 months ago

Cool, TIL, thanks for the breakdown!

[-] jyter@lemmy.world 13 points 8 months ago

The US equivalent would be a Collective Bargaining Agreement - the contract between a union and the employer.

[-] snor10@lemm.ee 7 points 8 months ago

Beyond the explanations given, kollektivavtal is the foundation of what is called the Swedish model that is the custom by which companies and unions function in Sweden.

All bigger companies have kollektivavtal, so what Tesla is doing is extremely strange and foreign to Swedish culture.

[-] noride@lemm.ee 5 points 8 months ago

OP mentioned it so casually, I just assumed I was dumber than usual today.

[-] dojan@lemmy.world 14 points 8 months ago

I realised shortly after posting it, that it might be something people abroad aren't familiar with. So I've amended my comment to include a short description of what a kollektivavtal, a collective agreement is. It differs depending on your line of work, a programmer like me wouldn't have the same agreement that say, a mine worker in Kiruna would have.

In short though, a kollektivavtal opens up a breadth of fundamental workers rights, like the right to negotiate your salary. A workplace not having one is a gigantic red flag.

@SturgiesYrFase@lemmy.ml

[-] SturgiesYrFase@lemmy.ml 2 points 8 months ago

Thanks for the bit of knowledge, appreciated!

[-] LollerCorleone@kbin.social 3 points 8 months ago

I think it means a collective agreement

[-] slaacaa@lemmy.world 60 points 8 months ago
[-] Jaytreeman@kbin.social 44 points 8 months ago

Yeah, pretending the union doesn't exist is going to help...

[-] frunch@lemmy.world 6 points 8 months ago

It's worked for them so far... I'm excited to see where this leads though!

[-] snor10@lemm.ee 35 points 8 months ago

Tesla is the first company in Swedish history attempting to bring in scabs during a strike.

[-] BarrierWithAshes@kbin.social 29 points 8 months ago

What's the over/under of Elon blocking Twitter in Sweden?

[-] whoisearth@lemmy.ca 36 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago)

Most fragile billionaire ever.

He really channeled that little dick energy.

Edit - I love that even though I have so little in life compared to him I do have something that amounts to far more than he ever could hope for. Confidence and people who genuinely love me.

I'm not with the majority of those online. I don't hate the dude. I pity him.

[-] flying_sheep@lemmy.ml 14 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago)

That's a lot of compassion for someone whose hurt and confusion makes him wield the disproportionate amounts of power he has in a disastrous way.

I don't think I “hate” anyone really, but in the case of fragile billionaires, I care more about the people hurt by their actions than them. First priority is to remove them from power, a distant second is to get them some help.

[-] Setarkus@mander.xyz 3 points 8 months ago

[...] I do have something that amounts to far more than he ever could hope for. Confidence and people who genuinely love me.

I'm relieved and somewhat disappointed that this didn't end as I thought it would

[-] gravitas_deficiency@sh.itjust.works 15 points 8 months ago

Hell yes. Solidarity forever!

this post was submitted on 02 Nov 2023
726 points (99.5% liked)

World News

37319 readers
2771 users here now

A community for discussing events around the World

Rules:

We ask that the users report any comment or post that violate the rules, to use critical thinking when reading, posting or commenting. Users that post off-topic spam, advocate violence, have multiple comments or posts removed, weaponize reports or violate the code of conduct will be banned.

All posts and comments will be reviewed on a case-by-case basis. This means that some content that violates the rules may be allowed, while other content that does not violate the rules may be removed. The moderators retain the right to remove any content and ban users.


Lemmy World Partners

News !news@lemmy.world

Politics !politics@lemmy.world

World Politics !globalpolitics@lemmy.world


Recommendations

For Firefox users, there is media bias / propaganda / fact check plugin.

https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/media-bias-fact-check/

founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS