this post was submitted on 28 Jun 2025
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[–] PugJesus@lemmy.world 6 points 2 months ago

Explanation: Some leftists (not exclusively tankies, though you will always see tankies take this position) assert that Cuba's problems are due to embargoed by the US.

Despite the embargo being wrong, useless, and even counterproductive, a closer look at the situation shows that the assertion is dubious as a primary driver of Cuba's economic woes - the Soviet Union allowed Cuba to continue its role as a sugar plantation for a superpower (previously acting as such for the US) up until its fall in the 1990s - not coincidentally, Cuba's economy took a nosedive at the same time. Cuban sugar was massively subsidized by the Soviet Union as part of the clientistic relationship between the two; Castro, to his credit, invested these subsidies in public services, showing himself to be an idealist, not just a self-serving strongman. Castro, to Cuba's detriment, however, largely did not invest these subsidies into diversifying the economy.

When the Soviet Union fell, both the massive amount of material aid (such as being given machinery for free or at significantly reduced cost) and the market subsidy for sugar dried up. Cuba's strict planned economy has come back to bite it. Not only does it now lack a superpower willing to subsidize the sugar industry, but, even if the American embargo is lifted, it's doubtful that it would find the US willing to subsidy Cuban sugar to the degree that the USSR did, wherein the USSR bought Cuban sugar at six times the market price.

The embargo's biggest influences have been further straining an already-strained maintenance regime, by making relatively cheap-but-effective American machinery more expensive to acquire; and shaving a few percentage points of profit off of Cuban exports, which, considering Cuba's overall sluggish economy, is a big deal. The issue is that if Cuba's economy was not already immensely and inherently fucked, it wouldn't be such a big deal. In the 1950s, for example, Cuba was a major exporter of cattle products - in the modern day, it is a net importer which produces fewer cattle products than it did in the 1950s - a decrease not due to environmental degradation or changing economic patterns, but due to the inefficiency and Kafkaesque absurdity of hierarchical centralized planning from detached apparatchiks.

Fuck the embargo though, and fuck the racist GOP and the whinging descendants of Cuban exiles in Florida for keeping it a political football in play.

[–] Tillyrblue@lemmy.world 1 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (1 children)

Cuba does have some market mechanisms in their socialist economy and did diversify their industry during the Special Period, just the little amount of capital doesn’t have any political power. Despite the US blockade (the word I prefer) which is the source of 95% of the problems in Cuba, they are successful in some ways but the blockade does make life extremely difficult. Part of it is literally blocking Cuba access to world financial systems. Don’t forget the purpose of it is to create despair in Cuba so that the people blame and rise up against their government so the US can re-colonize it.

[–] PugJesus@lemmy.world 3 points 2 months ago (1 children)

Cuba does have some market mechanisms in their socialist economy

Very few, with even workers' coops extremely restrained.

and did diversify their industry during the Special Period,

... how did they diversify their industry during the Special Period, again? Because all I remember happening is the total collapse of their subsidized economy, and a 20 fucking year delay before Castro admitted that maybe their economic system didn't work anymore now that it wasn't being massively subsidized by the USSR?

Despite the US blockade (the word I prefer)

Your preference is utterly detached from reality, considering that a blockade involves one nation preventing goods from going to or from any others. "We won't trade with you" isn't a blockade.

Maybe if the US really wanted to put the squeeze on Cuba, we'd clamp down on cash remittances from the US, which constitute a fucking fourth of Cuba's GDP.

which is the source of 95% of the problems in Cuba,

Are you being fucking serious.

Part of it is literally blocking Cuba access to world financial systems.

"How can we succeed if we can't access one (1) capitalist market!?"

Cuba has extensive access to Russian, Chinese, and EU financial systems, but I guess being unable to access US financial systems dooms any socialist project. Press F to pay respects.

Don’t forget the purpose of it is to create despair in Cuba so that the people blame and rise up against their government

Yes, which is why I said it's stupid. That's not the same as slurping down ML propaganda and claiming it's the cause of '95%' of the problems in Cuba.

[–] Tillyrblue@lemmy.world 1 points 2 months ago (1 children)

I just traveled to Cuba on a humanitarian mission and learned about all this stuff. A majority of things you’re saying are US talking points aimed to harm Cubans. It is a blockade, part of it is the US blocks aid and resources from getting into Cuba and any ship from a country that trades with Cuba is blocked from US ports for six months, which would heavily effect other countries so they don’t so that. China does help them but they can only do so much. Every country in the UN votes to uplift the blockade because they want to trade with Cuba, except the US and Israel vote against it. Read “We are Cuba” by Helen Yaffe, it’ll give you some good insight.

[–] PugJesus@lemmy.world 1 points 2 months ago (1 children)

It is a blockade, part of it is the US blocks aid and resources from getting into Cuba

Jesus fucking Christ.

and any ship from a country that trades with Cuba is blocked from US ports for six months, which would heavily effect other countries so they don’t so that.

Oh, the fact that the Netherlands, Canada, Spain, and Germany are some of Cuba's largest trading partners must've been a fever dream I had.

Every country in the UN votes to uplift the blockade because they want to trade with Cuba,

Do you... do you understand that most of the world, and even the US to some degree, does trade with Cuba?

Like, the reason the UN constantly requests the US to lift the embargo is because it's stupid as fuck, not because the international community can't trade with Cuba at the moment.

This is one of the stupidest takes I've seen on Cuba, and I've seen some pretty fucking stupid takes.

[–] Tillyrblue@lemmy.world 1 points 2 months ago (1 children)

Lol

I never said it completely blocks trade but it heavily does. When I was down there I saw Turkey had a shipping port, Canada has a strong relationship with them, China improves some of the infrastructure. But the US hates what Fidel & Cuba did so they inflict the blockade on them and since it has global hegemony, succeeds. 

Also I work with a woman who has spent the last 50 years getting aid to Cuba that the US previously blocked, recently included 3 million syringes for the covid vaccine. Another organization here that sends unused wasted medical supplies to Latin America just got threatened and had their license removed to send aid to Cuba by Trump. These things are happening. You have the Communist Manifesto linked in the community, you should support Cuba more.

which is the source of 95% of the problems in Cuba,

At least thats what the Cubans down there had to say. Yes Cuba has internal problems and corruption but its not the source of their problems.

Do you... do you understand that most of the world, and even the US to some degree, **does** trade with Cuba?

Oh we give them our shitty bleached chicken, good for us

how did they diversify their industry during the Special Period, again?

I forgot to answer. Cuba diversified their economy by funding research to their medical field to be able to trade medical care for things like oil etc, opened up tourism (which has been the biggest part of the economy), and began incredible urban garden programs to become food self-sufficient. 

slurping down ML propaganda

No one’s slurping down ML propaganda, but you seem to like spreading your’s

[–] PugJesus@lemmy.world 1 points 2 months ago (1 children)

I never said it completely blocks trade but it heavily does.

Yes, I'm sure that the grapes are just rotting on the vine for lack of international trade partners in Cuba.

When I was down there I saw Turkey had a shipping port, Canada has a strong relationship with them, China improves some of the infrastructure.

So sad that the Great Socialist Experiment can't succeed even with all these trade partners, because the capitalist dogs in the Great Satan won't subsidize them.

But the US hates what Fidel & Cuba did so they inflict the blockade on them and since it has global hegemony, succeeds.

The 'blockade' that doesn't actually block other countries from freely trading with Cuba, that includes US trade with Cuba, and that funds a fourth of Cuba's GDP by free fucking money from Cuban expats.

Truly, the US 'blockade' is the cause of Cuba's woes.

Also I work with a woman who has spent the last 50 years getting aid to Cuba that the US previously blocked, recently included 3 million syringes for the covid vaccine.

Cuba literally rejected a US offer of COVID vaccines, but go off about how the US is secretly sabotaging Cuba.

Another organization here that sends unused wasted medical supplies to Latin America just got threatened and had their license removed to send aid to Cuba by Trump.

I believe it. That's not the same as saying that 95% of Cuba's problems are because of the embargo.

These things are happening. You have the Communist Manifesto linked in the community, you should support Cuba more.

I suppose you must think we should support the Soviet Union as well, completely missing the fucking point of the comm.

At least thats what the Cubans down there had to say.

"I went down to Cuba for some Voluntourism and the Cuban people repeated the government line"

How very convincing!

Yes Cuba has internal problems and corruption but its not the source of their problems.

Christ.

Fuck off with your red-painted fascist apologia.

Oh we give them our shitty bleached chicken, good for us

So now we've gone from "THE US STOPS THE WORLD FROM TRADING WITH CUBA" to "Sure, even the US itself trades with Cuba, but US trade goods are stinky!"

Fucking fantastic, what a high-quality position we're dealing with here.

I forgot to answer. Cuba diversified their economy by funding research to their medical field to be able to trade medical care for things like oil etc

Cuba's medical field declined in the 90s, though it remains high-quality. It sure as shit didn't 'diversify' in that period.

opened up tourism (which has been the biggest part of the economy),

Waoh, and the United Snakes of Amerikkka didn't stop them with the Imperialist Blockade???

and began incredible urban garden programs to become food self-sufficient.

"To become food self-sufficient"

Wow, it would be really impressive if the Great Socialist Experiment(tm) managed to make Cuba what it was before the revolution. Maybe someday, with a lot of capitalist reforms, it'll become a net exporter of food! Then we can watch all the good little bootlickers line up to praise "Socialism with Cuban Characteristics" just like they do for the PRC.

No one’s slurping down ML propaganda, but you seem to like spreading your’s

You're fucking sitting here praising one of the great failures of ML ideology as a socialist success that only the embargo from the US is keeping down, instead of a Soviet holdover that refused meaningful reforms for some 20 years due to the intransigence of its ruling class in refusing to recognize that running the country as a plantation for a dead superpower was no longer viable (and was never a good idea in the first fucking place).

You're slurping down ML propaganda, pal.

[–] Tillyrblue@lemmy.world 0 points 2 months ago (1 children)

Cuba literally rejected a US offer of COVID vaccines

The US vaccines couldn’t be stored in Cuba since they needed to be refrigerated and it wasn’t an offer without stipulations. Plus they were developing a more effective vaccine that could be stored in room temperature.

blockade' that doesn't actually block other countries from freely trading with Cuba

True-ish, but then those countries/companies can’t freely trade with the US, again who dominates the capitalist markets. It’s basically punishment for trading with Cuba. Some places don’t care, most do. There is also a block of anything made with 10%-25% US materials aren’t allowed in Cuba, which is a big fucking deal.

Cuban people repeated the government line

No one threatens these people to make them say what they say. They believe in the socialist revolution and love their country because they’ve established a class-consciousness surrounding it. Its easy to say “OH DUR GOVURBMENT LINEEEE” when you’re already biased against the system.

I suppose you must think we should support the Soviet Union as well

The Soviet Union collapsed and hasn’t existed since 1991 buddy. 

Waoh, and the United Snakes of Amerikkka didn't stop them with the Imperialist Blockade???

European tourism is big in Cuba and Obama did open up US travel to help (under the guise it wanted them to be more capitalist) but then Trump reversed and added more bans and sanctions. Currently the Trump admin is threatening citizens of other countries that if they travel to Cuba they could be banned from coming to the US for a period of time. 

Fuck the embargo though, and fuck the racist GOP and the whinging descendants of Cuban exiles

But the things you’re saying are in line with the whinging cuban exiles and the racist GOP. You’re so lost. Instead of helping and supporting a socialist project like Cuba all you’re doing is spreading US lies, propaganda, and think any practice of communism is “red fascism.” I don’t understand the “comm?” All your talking points are anti-communist. Go read some Michael Parenti or something.

[–] PugJesus@lemmy.world 2 points 2 months ago (1 children)

The US vaccines couldn’t be stored in Cuba since they needed to be refrigerated

As we all know, Cuba lacks the advanced capitalist technology of refrigeration.

and it wasn’t an offer without stipulations.

The stipulation that data must be collected on the efficacy of the vaccine during a time when COVID was still very fresh? What a horrific stipulation.

Plus they were developing a more effective vaccine that could be stored in room temperature.

I'm sure the millions of unvaccinated Cubans and the mass protests over the Cuban government's mishandling of the COVID crisis were thrilled about the wait. But of course, ghouls like you support how the Cuban government brutally suppresses protests. Those aren't REAL Cuban voices, after all, right? Real Cubans would support the Great Socialist Project without question!

True-ish, but then those countries/companies can’t freely trade with the US, again who dominates the capitalist markets. It’s basically punishment for trading with Cuba. Some places don’t care, most do.

As we all know, the Netherlands, Spain, Germany, and Canada can't freely trade with the US, due to their dealings with Cuba. RIP.

No one threatens these people to make them say what they say. They believe in the socialist revolution and love their country because they’ve established a class-consciousness surrounding it. Its easy to say “OH DUR GOVURBMENT LINEEEE” when you’re already biased against the system.

lmao

The Soviet Union collapsed and hasn’t existed since 1991 buddy.

Yes, something I've repeatedly pointed out in our conversation here.

The Sovs claimed to be communist as well, so obviously we should support their red fascist government built on the same ML principles as Cuba's government, right?

European tourism is big in Cuba

Wh-what!? B-but there's a US imperialist blockade??

But the things you’re saying are in line with the whinging cuban exiles and the racist GOP.

They'd be much more likely to agree with you about how important and vital the embargo is to DESTROYING the Cuban economy, only phrased as a positive instead of a negative.

You’re so lost. Instead of helping and supporting a socialist project like Cuba all you’re doing is spreading US lies, propaganda, and think any practice of communism is “red fascism.”

Golly gee, I wonder why I wouldn't support a 'socialist project' that strips all power from the proletariat and oppresses the working class under a totalitarian regime?

Sorry that I'm not enough of a braindead fascist for your liking. Maybe Lemmygrad would be more your speed. Over there, you can lick the boots of the Soviet Union and Cuba for shipping LGBT folk to work camps.

I don’t understand the “comm?”

That's extremely apparent.

All your talking points are anti-communist.

"Anti-communism is when you oppose dictatorships even if they're painted red!"

Cry some more.

Go read some Michael Parenti or something.

Unfortunately, I have read some Michael Parenti. It's unsurprising that you would simp for a pro-Soviet genocide denier who, on top of that, engages in extremely shoddy scholarship.

[–] Tillyrblue@lemmy.world 1 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (1 children)

Wow I guess you know all your talking points. I should just listen to someone who posts on Lemmy all day instead of my actual lived experience in the country we’re talking about, the many lectures/talks, books, and news articles I’ve consumed on these topics. I don’t want to look deeper and I want to reply with dumb sarcastic comments when I’m presented with an opportunity to do critical thinking like you do. Every single little thing a communist country has ever done was abhorrent and the West did do bad things too but we’ll just ignore those and blame everything on said damn commie country. Better dead than red I’ll say. Don’t worry we’re still leftists though who believe we can reform the capitalist system. Now lets go be ineffective at improving the peoples material conditions!

[–] PugJesus@lemmy.world 1 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (1 children)

Now lets go be ineffective at improving the peoples material conditions!

lmao, imagine unironically saying this and simping for Cuba.

But yes, I know it's scary, being confronted with 'talking points' that you can't find valid answers to. At least you still have the good old 'whataboutism' and accusations of being a secret capitalist to fall back on, lmao.

[–] Tillyrblue@lemmy.world 0 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago)

I would say travel to Cuba to learn these things for yourself, I feel it would be fruitful, but you’re too busy simping for imperialist nations.

being contronted

I realized you lack critical thinking, its like talking to MAGA with you

I’ve seen some other posts by you, you have good takes sometimes, but others like this Cuba post is a shitty take.