California allows robo-taxis to expand and emergency responders aren't happy (www.npr.org)

submitted 10 months ago by beepboop@lemmy.sdf.org to c/technology@beehaw.org

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[-] FaceDeer@kbin.social 32 points 10 months ago

San Francisco's police and fire departments have urged the CPUC to oppose the expansion – they say they've tallied 55 incidents where self-driving cars have got in the way of rescue operations in just the last six months. The incidents include running through yellow emergency tape, blocking firehouse driveways and refusing to move for first responders.

I'd be curious to see how that compared to the number of idiot human drivers who got in the way and otherwise reacted incorrectly to emergency vehicles.

[-] ricecake@beehaw.org 19 points 10 months ago

Big difference is that a human can be yelled at and told what to do, and we currently don't have a good way for someone to do that with an autonomous vehicle.

[-] FaceDeer@kbin.social 4 points 10 months ago

As far as I'm aware, all autonomous vehicles have manual controls that can override them. The person inside the vehicle would have to take over when an emergency responder started yelling directions.

[-] ricecake@beehaw.org 9 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago)

Some of the vehicles don't have anyone in them.

https://missionlocal.org/2023/05/waymo-cruise-fire-department-police-san-francisco/

One of the incidents in question.

[-] TQuid@beehaw.org 2 points 10 months ago

Well, you can just ram them out of the way with your firetruck. Obviously that's not a great option either, but if the FD does that then any damages are on the robot-taxi company.

[-] ricecake@beehaw.org 2 points 10 months ago

Sure, I suppose. Or just don't expand the system until there's some measure of system in place to keep the AI cars from fucking around in emergency situations.

[-] CanadaPlus@lemmy.sdf.org 3 points 10 months ago

Don't some autonomous vehicles have an emergency responder mode, too?

[-] garrett@infosec.pub 17 points 10 months ago

Stupid idea that’s clearly motivated by the city’s deference to their tech gentry. Self driving anything has too many questions and issues still. I’m also not inclined to table “well what about the problems with people driving?” That only tells me we need transit, not robo taxis.

[-] TQuid@beehaw.org 5 points 10 months ago

Ding ding ding! We have a safe mode of robot transit: trains. See, we know exactly where they will go because they run on rails. Literally.

[-] argv_minus_one@beehaw.org 3 points 10 months ago

Trains aren't safe. They just expose you to different dangers, like airborne diseases, pickpocketing, and stabbing.

[-] garrett@infosec.pub 1 points 10 months ago

I promise I'm not trying to make fun of you but this sounds a bit like a suburban person's perception of the city rather than what the city is actually like. None of this is more common on a subway than anywhere else.

[-] snowbell@beehaw.org 2 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago)

How am I supposed to sing "Oops I did it Again" at the top of my lungs on a train? I need a private booth for that.

[-] argv_minus_one@beehaw.org 3 points 10 months ago

Transit can only take you to a place along its route, and it takes forever to get there. Cars and taxis are popular for a reason.

[-] garrett@infosec.pub 1 points 10 months ago

Yeah, because there's zero investment in transit. We literally don't have the resources to make a bunch of EV cars so we're gonna have to invest in transit one way or another.

[-] Rentlar@beehaw.org 14 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago)

Just have them be overridden with a key like Elevators. Let policemen and other responders be able to drive, stop or direct them by inserting the fireman's key.

Or alternatively, just take full liberty and bash the autonomous vehicle out of the way. No key required.

[-] oldGregg@lemm.ee 15 points 10 months ago

Hell yeah and then we can get a universal remote from the dank web and have free cars literally everywhere I'm down.

[-] Rentlar@beehaw.org 1 points 10 months ago

It doesn't necessarily have to be a get-free-car feature. It could be limited to 20km/h or something if operated in control mode.

[-] Seathru@beehaw.org 3 points 10 months ago

We already have the tech to let signal lights at intersections know emergency vehicles are approaching so they can direct traffic accordingly. No reason this couldn't be adopted to autonomous vehicles.

[-] argv_minus_one@beehaw.org 3 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago)

Let policemen and other responders be able to drive, stop or direct them by inserting the fireman’s key.

Then they can be remote-controlled by criminals to abduct people. That doesn't seem wise.

[-] autotldr@lemmings.world 6 points 10 months ago

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On Thursday, the California Public Utilities Commission, or CPUC, voted 3-1 to let self-driving car companies expand their programs and start charging passengers like taxis.

San Francisco's police and fire departments have urged the CPUC to oppose the expansion – they say they've tallied 55 incidents where self-driving cars have got in the way of rescue operations in just the last six months.

"Our folks cannot be paying attention to an autonomous vehicle when we've got ladders to throw," San Francisco Fire Chief Jeanine Nicholson said in a public meeting on Monday providing commissioners testimony before Thursday's vote.

"We have demonstrated our deep willingness and longtime commitment to work in partnership with California state, SF city and first responders," said Waymo spokesperson Katherine Barna.

In one of those episodes, captured on police body camera footage obtained by Mission Local, a driverless car approached the scene of a massive fire in a residential neighborhood and inched slowly toward the firehose as frustrated first responders did all they could to stop it.

Several police officer and firefighter associations and unions in the Bay Area wrote letters to the CPUC urging the regulator to hold off on allowing the expansion of driverless car programs in San Francisco, according to Mission Local.