Asklemmy

20+ years ago, when I was a freshman in high school, a Palestinian refugee joined our class. He mentioned off-handedly how quiet it was where we lived at night - he was used to hearing rockets/bombs all night while trying to sleep.

Then I started reading.

Two things:

1. two different Israeli tourists told me that Palestinians were animals during the course of different conversations at different times

2).I saw Five Broken Cameras

Those both happened at least a decade ago, and I've been pretty vocal about my condemnation of IDF violence since that point, and it's been insane to have gotten s*** about supporting Palestine for so many years and then in the last few months see a complete reversal of the American perspective.

I've actually had someone reach out to me to ask some clarifying questions now that the hospital bombings and IDF invasions happening for decades are actually being reported on and there's no way to ignore the overwhelming military and cultural advantage israel has in this conflict.

I've always stood with Palestine.

I'm genX, so South African apartheid was constantly on the news through my childhood. It doesn't take much to see that Israel is just as shitty.

I (early GenX) grew up with: it is an ugly conflict between two evil sides who do not hold back to kill. When agreements are reached, there is always one side who breaches the agreements. Periodic killing returns in a continuous cycle. At the end of every period the conflict hardens and borders are moved.

I have not changed my opinion. I have not seen an eye opener in the past months.

SNAFU: Situation Normal, All Fucked Up

I knew about the Free Palestine movement before the war but never knew much about the details. I didn't know what Palestine was, exactly. I knew Hamas was a terrorist organization but couldn't tell you what country they were in.

Then the attacks happened, and I saw a huge disparity among my friends. About half supported Palestine and half supported Israel, so I decided to spend a night researching the history of the conflict. That was an eye opener.

I've never really understood people wanting to travel there or even move there as the danger of terrorist attacks seemed to high to risk it (and I travelled quite a bit in the world).

But when I looked into it to resolve my ignorance the apartheid nature seemed very clear to me (I had family in SA) so I was aware of the issue. So since a couple of years ago, maybe even a decade, the politics of Israel were very much against what I deem right and productive.. or ethical.

So superficially I was for Israel (history class in school, Western news reporting, etc.) before I started inform myself.

Used to think Israel action is fair because Hamas been firing rocket in those building, but i'm not sure what and why this one particular incident that somehow started disillusion me. It's the bombing of a high-rise housing Associated Press and Al Jazeera, Israel claimed it's used by Hamas, but never provided any proof afterward.

Then a year later, the murder of journalist Shireen Abu Akleh. Israel blame Palestine but later investigation found out that it's the Israel force that did it.

Then i dig deeper and found out they kill children without reason, and it's a well documented fact.

Talking with a LGBTQ muslim lady on Facebook 9 years ago. I was an islamophobe/Israel praising person and I had the lucky to find this chill and lovely woman who spent her time talking with me about islamophobia in general and the Palestinian situation as well, despite not being her obligation to do so. Thank you, Maryam for being a teacher for me!

I'm honestly not sure if there was a moment or a thing. Probably just the unending saga of one Israeli atrocity after another. At some point I just realized it wasn't a complicated situation at all. Palestinians are a colonized people, Israel is a colonizing and occupying force. We're talking about decolonization elsewhere, why not when the region in question is Palestine?

When it was explained to me 25+ years ago how Israel was invented, and so I did further reading. Religious divides are wrong in every way, and they are prevent neighbourly integration, so I decided I disagree with Israel as a concept, just as I disagree with all apartheid systems. This invasion just solidified my opinion.

And bias in the media? The news here in Oz yesterday covered an orphaned four-year-old being returned to her family just because she was American/Israeli. It left out the many other orphaned four-year-olds dead or dying or lying in pain and fear, without medical attention, because of Israels "action". The ones killed and injured with weapons Israel is lying about using, such as phosphorus. The media are biased as all get out. Poor little kids didn't have a chance.

I had the opposite journey. I used to be more sympathetic to Palestinian side until this war started. Most people and media around me are pro-Palestinian.

But it's not the whole story. This is a situation where no side is clean or innocent. So many Palestinians support Hamas that it's hard to have sympathy. Yes, they lived under occupation for decades, but learned all the wrong lessons - how to be just as bad as Israel.

The fight is more evenly matched than you suggest. Israel may be winning militarily, but Hamas has the better media presence, and is winning hearts and minds of people around the world. Every dead Palestinian benefits Hamas more than it benefits Israel. They know it, and use it to the fullest extent.

The minute it kicked back off. I've always considered Israel to be a standard-bearer of settler-colonialism-- it's why I wasn't able to listen to Borgore after a while-- but I never critically investigated why Hamas needed to exist until I stopped and started comparing how similar Palestine's plight is to what my community has already been through.

Our neighborhoods bombed. Our fathers murdered in the street. Our children funneled from school to prison. The only reason Amerika doesn't look like Israel, doesn't take casualties like Israel, doesn't fight an armed resistance like Israel, is because Amerika either imprisoned, murdered, or both regarding anyone who could have stepped up to lead an armed resistance in my community. The minute that all clicked for me, I couldn't even think about condemning any part of the Palestinian joint coalition; ESPECIALLY not Hamas. Shit, Black and Indigenous folk need a Hamas at this point.

Westerner and was never brought up that one side was good or bad but that there was a failure of separation of church and state and this has led to a horrific unsolvable mess. Modern westerners are pretty sensitive to terrorism though and if you are a small religious sect attacking an established nation-state that has been an ally to western nations, yeah you become the greater evil in the eyes of most with a western upbringing. Other than the children, there aren't a whole lot of innocents involved here. It's many shades of grey. For those that have a voice in choosing leaders, I advise to lean against choosing any with strong religious convictions - even if they align with your own. Keep government secular.

The sheer number of people, organizations, and national institutions that fell over each other in scrambling to support Israel/condemn Hammas set off my bullshit detector.

I'm still not taking sides, but the pro-Israel blitzkrieg is so over the top that I don't accept it at face value. Someone's trying to sell me something.

I know you mean well, but although neither side is wholly anything I can advocate, even after seeing Palestine, if I had to choose, I side with Israel. I don't care how persecuted you are, you simply do not kill random civilians. That would fall under indiscriminate escalation, which is different from just having a conflict with someone because each of the different levels of escalation, when surpassed, by definition mark the escalator as an antagonist (especially when not just in Israel; the Jewish committee in America have been threatened, so much that the unions are distancing themselves and multiple Jewish American leaders have been killed). And they did it on an Israeli holiday (which adds an extra challenge to them explaining why what's going on isn't antisemitic; one of their defenses is "Israeli citizens exist on stolen land, therefore they are thieves and the best punishment for thievery is death" which is almost a word-for-word paraphrasing of Axis Germany's defense).

Israel in comparison, though they've been haughty in how they deal with their neighbors, have been operating under just that, a broken sense of arrogance. If you're wondering, I do despise what Israel has done to Palestine, and the escalations by Palestine and Hamas don't take away from the fact that Israel is guilty, enough that I question US involvement in Israel, especially when the US is already involved in India. I have always known what all three countries are doing to Palestine/Pakistan and it feels like they've been stabbing the bear for so long, like someone who acquires a garden but doesn't nourish its flowers. But it's not something I look at and think "look at how suffering they are, I fully understand why they did what they did now". No I don't. You don't engage in an all-out assault, start a campaign of guerilla warfare which is more psychologically profound, drag Russia and North Korea onto your side just because "they're you're enemies' enemies", and lie when you do commit tragic accidents like the hospital bombings, which nobody doubts was Hamas' and Palestine's doing except them and half their peers (which I understand they cling to because it would foil their original plan of wanting the Saudis to step out of relations with Israel). As a technical LGBT member, I also don't want to say I 100% trust Palestine to be in control anymore than Israel, as that's an internal struggle all on its own.

I've learned a lot more over time, especially recently. I never had a eureka moment though. Everyone deserves to live in peace and with basic human rights. I'll always advocate for that. Specifically this conflict though is between a Democratic state who has done fucked up shit and a genocidal fundmentalist terrorist group. There is still a clearly much less bad side here.

What opened your eyes to what's happening in Palestine?

Gee, that's assuming quite a bit right out of the gate.

We’re a group of activists in a Western country

Care to name yourselves then or do I just take it on faith this isn't astroturfing? This whole post is pure propaganda.

While I have sympathy for the average peaceful person living in these areas, Hamas is a terrorist organization. Bring on the downvotes.

If you can't do anything to actually help what good will do getting anxious and dread about it? If you can, donate to orgs, volunteer...

Try watching Novara Media, very informative and good analysis