BYD isn't exactly better... But I guess this will be cheaper. You lose out on the really handy supercharging network tho... Don't know how this will work out...
this post was submitted on 07 Dec 2023
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[Dormant] Electric Vehicles
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Supercharger is much less important outside the US where companies are actually building charging networks.
They’re rental cars. They don’t care how customers charge them. They get bonus penalties if you bring them back with less charge than when you picked them up.
Yeah, outside the US, all of us in Europe use CCS2 for DC fast charging, and Tesla stations are like all other brands, open to whatever car shows up.
You lose out on the really handy supercharging network tho
Are BYD not switching to NACS like the rest of the automakers?
Its safe to assume sixt will probably use BYD cars outside of the US. Not sure why Americans think everything revolves around them.
This article is more about how insane the EV market was during covid than anything else.
They're discussing how a Tesla ordered in 2022 has had its price cut by 30% in the last year. Most people here are probably aware of Tesla's massive discounts since their covid peak.
EV depreciation is also a weird topic on the whole. I bought an EV in the last year and received a 7500 tax credit. To make the numbers round let's say I bought a 50k ev. That's the price that gets reported. If I were to sell that car today I'd get around 45k for it. That's a 10% depreciation in the first year
However, with the tax credit I effectively paid 42,500. If I sold the car today I would make 2,500. The sales records don't include the tax credit in either of those transactions.
Tesla cutting their prices massively did hurt companies or people who paid pandemic prices. That said, arguing EVs should be more expensive is ridiculous. They should be as cheap and as plentiful as possible.
Idk, but until the infrastructure is more solid, fuck renting an EV. Most of the time, you're in a foreign place, so God knows where the chargers are. To top it off, you're typically spending your most cherished time when renting a car... Your vacation time. No one wants to spend up to 4 hours of their vacation charging an EV. If a rental car agency offered to "upgrade me to a Tesla at no extra cost, I would politely decline.
so God knows where the chargers are.
You don't need religion, just use the maps. They'll take you right there, even when you don't know the way. Maps aren't new, and GPS is commonplace.
No one wants to spend up to 4 hours of their vacation charging an EV.
WTF EV takes 4 hours to fast charge? And if you're charging on Level 2, it's because you've parked somewhere you're already stopping so who cares how long it takes. This point makes it sound like you don't really know about electric cars.
Edit: Just a couple links from a single site showing resale values, several of which are seriously skewed based on real world data collected by Tesla fans.
Popular brands: https://caredge.com/ranks/depreciation/popular/5-year/best
Luxury brands: https://caredge.com/ranks/depreciation/luxury/5-year/best
Scroll down to the long list of models on these pages, and compare Tesla's best resale price of around 74%, then look at the popular vehicles. You're down at number 86 on the list before you reach the resale value of a Model X, which is the lowest production Tesla that there is.
And here's a list from 2023 showing not great resale prices at all. https://www.iseecars.com/cars-that-hold-their-value-study
My guy, not everywhere has fast charging readily available. Take for instance, Kauai which as of my last visit when I almost rented a Tesla had 0 superchargers. I know plenty about EV's. You're not guaranteed to be staying at a place that has charging, and if you do, they could be all taken up, and then you have to waste your time scoping it out to see if it's open. Let's also add that they probably want you bringing back a full charge like they do a full tank for an ICE vehicle. A 5 minute stop for gas before getting on a plane is nbd. Waiting 30 mins for a supercharger (or more if they're all taken)(or even more for a slow charger) on the day you're going to go wait in security, wait for the plane to board, wait on the runway, and then get on a plane for 5 hours is not something I am willing to do. When I go on vacation, I'm not trying to add chores to my day. It's simply not practical for a rental car. Also, I like to rent cars for long trips. I have no desire to add 30 mins or more depending on how many stops I need to make to charge along the way. I want to spend the least amount of time in the car as possible. I work remote, and drive a hybrid. If I still was going to the office, I'd probably be in an EV by now. It was my plan 5 years ago, but I'm not driving every day, and it's wasteful to just get rid of a fully functioning car that I barely drive to begin with.
Yeah, for traveling to underdeveloped parts of the world, hybrid is the way to go.
My dude, Kauai's road length is hilariously small. So you drive during the day, and charge overnight while you're sleeping. Putting that aside, which would be foolish to do since that's how daily EV ownership is experienced, you could park at a Level 2 EV charger and then go to the beach, go to lunch, go on a tour, live your vacation life. The fact of the matter is, unless you're driving for 5 hours or more out of your precious vacation day, you aren't going to run out of battery on Kauai.
Let’s also add that they probably want you bringing back a full charge like they do a full tank for an ICE vehicle
You've tipped your hand here by showing you don't know what the rental experience is, which makes me question if you've ever considered renting one. All of the commercial companies want you to bring it back around 70%. Nobody charges to full, nobody wants an EV charged to full unless you're planning to wring out every single mile it can do in a long stint of a road trip.
I drove from Santa Clara to San Francisco international after charging overnight in Santa Clara, reached the airport with more than enough state of charge. Took no extra time in my schedule, I went to dinner while the car charged, making it just as convenient as stopping at a gas station. Sure, it took more than 5 minutes, but I didn't care because I was doing something else productive during that time.
Waiting 30 mins for a supercharger...
Something I've never done ever. Not once. Then again, I also don't fill up ICE vehicles when I'm returning them because I actually have to stop at a gas station and pump gas rather than charging overnight. When I drive my own EV to the airport for a business trip, I arrive with more than enough to park for a week or two and drive home. No charging stops, none of the contrived nonsense you've attempted to make up to scare people.
I have no desire to add 30 mins or more depending on how many stops I need to make to charge along the way
That's not a long trip by any measure. Driving the entire capacity of a modern EV on the highway is about 3 hours of actual driving time at full highway speed. If you're renting a car for a 3 hour trip, then I'm just going to suggest you not bother owning a car in the first place and rent one when you need one.
I want to spend the least amount of time in the car as possible
Great. Same. Which is what I do. Apparently you seem to think you need to sit in your car while it charges, but simultaneously think that a charging stop gives you around 30 minutes of time to kill. Can you think of anything to do for 30 minutes after driving for 3-4 hours???
it’s wasteful to just get rid of a fully functioning car that I barely drive to begin with.
This is a separate point to everything else being discussed, and nobody's debating this fact with you.
Look man, I'm not going to write another fucking essay here. Agree to disagree. You can like EVs, and also be aware of their flaws. A person can certainly do all the things you mentioned, but all of that takes way more effort than I'm willing to put in during my leisure time. I am not going to rent an EV any time soon, and none of your arguments have swayed me one bit.
So then you're in the Electric Vehicles community to concern troll and spread bullshit. Got it. Maybe before talking out your ass, you should, like, actually own and use the thing. Just a suggestion. I'm not trying to sway you, I couldn't care less what you do. I'm correcting the record for anybody that comes along in the future and sees the utter BS you've said here as a non EV owner, contrasted against what I've said here as an EV owner.
Honestly didn't see what community this was, just the article, and was giving my honest feedback. EVs are great for a lot of things, I just think specifically for renting it's not a great option. You clearly care more about this than I do about this with your sentence by sentence retort of every word I say. Believe it or not, some people might have different perspectives than you out in the world.
It has nothing to do with perspective and everything to do with you regurgitating lies we've all heard for over a decade now. Tired, hacky material. I don't care what you drive, I care that you're making up lies. You have no basis for comparison because you don't live with an EV. I do, and I have for the past 6 years. I've made plenty road trips in the US in multiple brands, I've rented multiple brands, and I've test driven most EVs available on the US market.
Why would you wait with the car while it charged? Also why would you try and charge it to full?
Someone who doesn’t know how EV work and doesn’t use a smart phone to look things up like chargers.
What a bullshit reason. Tesla's depreciation is almost identical to that of every other car model. And BYD is a newcomer so there's no data on how much it will depreciate.
Just say that you don't like Teslas and/or Elon Musk, or that China is giving you money. Those are all fine reasons to make decisions.
What a bullshit reason.
Hertz, however, cited absolutely the same poor depreciation and repair rates arguments when it recently said it will slow down Tesla car purchases.
Hmmm, two car rental companies saying the same thing...nah they must be lying.
I was looking at stats. For instance, Volkswagen E-Golf models and Polestar 2 have similar (or worse) depreciation rates, and BYD hasn't been in the market long enough to know how it depreciates. Why do you want to listen to bullshit some companies say when you can look at raw data? Because that bullshit agrees with your preconceptions?
Look, you can have preconceptions and you can make decisions based on those. That's fine. But of course people will call them out if they are uttered in public.
BYD makes cars for longer than Tesla as far as I can read, if they were a total failure it'd be known by now, so if Sixt says the lifetime cost estimates for byd are better than for Tesla maybe just Believe them. Cars can exist and you can gather data on them without the cars being sold in the US.
Well, I have fortunately the privilege of not having to believe anyone, since I already have my EV and have no reason to change in several years. But I'll certainly take a look at the data when it comes the time to acquire the next one. Who knows, BYD might be on the short list.
They aren't selling to you, they are rental companies. They are making decisions based on entirely different criteria and priorities than a private owner. But I'm sure your 5 minute googling is better than their combined several decades of experience running their business.
But I’m sure your 5 minute googling
Oh, I used way less than 5 minutes on this one ;)
Tesla’s depreciation is almost identical to that of every other car model
Not at all. You might be okay with how fast yours depreciated, but that doesn't mean it's in line with other brands.
And BYD is a newcomer
They aren't- They've been making cars since before Tesla was incorporated. And they make more BEVs than Tesla, more battery cells than Tesla, and tesla uses BYD cells in some of their cars.
Just say that you don’t like Teslas
Okay. I liked my Performance Model 3 for the first 9 months, then it had serious problems. By the time I traded it, I hated it.
and/or Elon Musk
Great. Musk is a piece of shit. That's secondary, but still related to how abysmal Tesla's repair shops are, how few there are, and how long you need to wait for parts.
or that China is giving you money.
I wish. Yo, China. I'm willing to take money, and in exchange I'll promote BYD as an EV brand. If anybody in China with the authority to make this happen, DM me for wiring instructions. $500k USD a year, access to engineers internally so I can ask questions, and we've got a deal.
How much would you pay for an ex-rental car ? The argument is total BS.
I'll never own another Tesla in my life, so I'm probably the wrong person to ask. 😆
Not at all.
The data I've seen disagrees with you, so do you have better data?
See my links further in this thread, and feel free to attempt to disagree with actual industry reporting. And, of course, show us any links you have pretending that Teslas don't depreciate faster than the highest selling vehicles in the world. Something other than Elon's tweets.
For instance:
https://caredge.com/tesla/depreciation
vs
https://caredge.com/volkswagen/depreciation
vs
https://caredge.com/toyota/depreciation
I looked at your links. Fascinating that we have the same source site, but apparently different results.
We don't have different results, you just can't seem to read a simple picture for some reason. See how that 2018 Toyota is worth over the 80% line and the Tesla is below the 80% line? I've seen self owns here before, but this was impressive.
You're quick to become insulting. You should look into that, because it makes you seem like a total asshole where it's entirely possible that you are not one.
The difference here is that I'm looking at longer ownership times, so I was focusing on year 2012. Toyota is still somewhat better, though, but Toyotas are famous for having very long lives. Volkswagen is at about the same level.
That wasn't me being insulting. Do you think this EV rental company is comparing their 2012 resale values, or do you think they're comparing their 3-5 year values? In the US, around two thirds of owners own their car for 5 years or less. This is why the links I posted compared vehicles at 3, 5, and 7 years.
If you bought a Tesla during the peak of covid prices, the depreciation has been pretty brutal. (Edit Although i imagine its brutal for other vehicles as well.)
I'm not sure what people were expecting there though. Those prices weren't exactly natural.
I don't think outside of that event, theybe been as bad as they're made out to be.
Yeah, I bought just after the latest price reduction, so I guess I'm in the stupidly fortunate group of Tesla owners.
If interest rates go down and Tesla raises prices again, and they are losing some of the IRA credit, you might even end up on the appreciating side of things like owners just before the covid price spike.