this post was submitted on 29 Dec 2023
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Trump team flew fake elector ballots to DC ahead of Jan 6, report says (www.independent.co.uk)
submitted 10 months ago by MicroWave@lemmy.world to c/news@lemmy.world
50 comments fedilink hide all child comments
 

Leaked witness testimony from pro-Trump lawyer Kenneth Chesebro allegedly reveals how the former president’s aides scrambled to overturn the 2020 election

Donald Trump's campaign team physically flew "fake elector" ballots across the country to Washington DC in a last-ditch effort to overturn the 2020 election, a new report claims.

According to CNN, leaked witness testimony from a Michigan state investigation shows how Mr Trump's aides scrambled to deliver the allegedly fraudulent paperwork to vice president Mike Pence before he could certify the election results.

The so-called "fake electors" plot hinged on the fact that American presidents are not directly elected by the people, but rather by 538 "electors" who are selected by their states based on the outcome of the vote.

Mr Trump's team allegedly pressured state legislators to ignore the vote and choose their electors by fiat. When that did not work, they assembled their own group of electors with no legal standing and pushed vice president Mike Pence to accept it instead of the real ones.

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[–] SpezCanLigmaBalls@lemmy.world 133 points 10 months ago (3 children)

This shit is actually crazy though. Everything that went on leading up to this. The event. The after where there are still millions supporting him. Damn I'm baked and now I'm thinking about if he got away away with it. Will never understand why people have such a hard on for him that they treat him like a god so their entire personality is based on him. Imagine being so self conscious about yourself that it takes a con man who ran for president to give you the strength to be yourself but you're not even yourself, you are Trump's minion and everything you do is based around him.

That's crazy

[–] Mostly_Gristle@lemmy.world 68 points 10 months ago (3 children)

Will never understand why people have such a hard on for him that they treat him like a god so their entire personality is based on him

It's because they are cruel people. Trump, and people like him, give them permission to indulge their cruelty. They give them an avenue to lean into their worst, most hateful, instincts and still feel like a good and righteous person.

See, hateful racist pricks don't view themselves as hateful racist pricks. They view themselves as sensible, rational people who see "what's really going on." When someone like Trump comes along and says, "No, you're right. The Muslims are trying to force public schools to make your child pray to Allah. The Mexicans are flooding over the border to steal your job. The Jews are conspiring to replace good white people with dirty 'woke' minorities," well, suddenly Trump is "making a lot of sense," and "telling it like it is."

Trump makes them feel good about being their worst selves. Trump lets them believe that anyone who questions their hateful worldview is just some libtard afflicted by the "woke mindvirus" and can be written off as subhuman and beneath contempt. He lets them think that maybe they'll finally get to kill a few of them if he's running the show. And because of all that he has earned their undying devotion.

[–] oxjox@lemmy.ml 14 points 10 months ago (1 children)

That certainly describes the people we've seen on tv and the internet and outside his rallies but I'd venture to guess the larger segment of Trump voters are just rank and file Republicans who have little interest in politics. There sure are hateful people in this country who've found a leader to represent their long-stifled voice. Don't ignore those who couldn't care less or those who only care about one thing though. They aren't ever voting for a D or a catholic or an octogenarian. Because powerful corporations and politicians, the RNC / DNC, religious leaders, etc. have rewired people's brains. Sometimes it's not their fault - it's not cruelty, it's ignorance and laziness. I think the ignorant and lazy can and should be helped.

I don't know if this is a larger issue than a sitting president trying to overturn an election but the two party system, the system that often promotes voting against a candidate, is, I think, worth spending more time discussing. We need Ranked Choice Voting in this country for all primary elections.

[–] Daft_ish@lemmy.world 1 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago)

It's good of you keep making excuses for these people but we are leaning in toward fascism. If they are still oblivious to it by this point than they have lost any goodwill from me. If it takes gas chambers for you to say, "I was wrong" than there is something seriously wrong with you.

[–] TheSanSabaSongbird@lemdro.id 5 points 10 months ago (1 children)

I don't think that's it at all. In reality, many and probably most Trump supporters are perfectly nice, kind and decent people on an individual basis when it comes to how they operate on a day-to-day basis.

In my experience most of them are simply poorly-informed and/or have a very limited understanding of the world outside of their cloistered information ecosystem.

The problem isn't so much that they are fundamentally "cruel" or hateful, but rather is that our current information economy is such that it's easy and comfortable for them to live in a sort of unreality that silos them off into tribal-like identities that are self-reinforcing and that as such, create a kind of impermeable membrane that's almost impossible to penetrate.

That this is so, is not an accident. It comes as an almost inevitable reaction to the fact that for decades now, large swathes of working class white people have been faced with the fact that their interests don't matter, that no one gives a shit about them, and that the powers that be are more than willing to sell their livelihoods out for the profit of a few elites.

Trumpism is obviously not the answer.

It's a con job, a fake out, but it feels like the right kind of "fuck you" to a lot of people who hate what globalization has done to their communities.

This has created a kind of tribalistic identity politics that can't be solved for through things like objective reality.

The only way out is to acknowledge that there are vast swathes of working-class people throughout the West who feel disenfranchised and who cannot be ignored, no matter how much we may think of them as spoiled babies.

[–] Lonnie123@lemmy.world 6 points 10 months ago

That doesnt really explain why Trump has such widespread magnetic appeal. That explains why they vote for republicans as a whole, or any individual republican running for president, but to me it doesnt speak to why Trump has become such a force of nature in the party to the point where he has basically taken it over and if those who do not grovel at his feet are cast aside. As he loses steam that is waning a bit, but man for a year or two he was king shit and no one could say anything bad about the guy, and even now people are obviously scared of him and his base

I also dont think its entirely explained by the cruelty-loving post you replied to, but I do think its a much more emotional response than just the fact based information-silo explanation you've given.

[–] LavaPlanet@lemmy.world 5 points 10 months ago

You are so astute! That's such a perfect explanation.

[–] partial_accumen@lemmy.world 43 points 10 months ago (1 children)

Will never understand why people have such a hard on for him that they treat him like a god

Because he hurts others these people want hurt.

[–] msage@programming.dev 19 points 10 months ago (1 children)

He doesn't even do that, he just speaks about it.

But he hurt the common folk more than anyone else.

[–] Gradually_Adjusting@lemmy.world 29 points 10 months ago (1 children)

He literally tried to make sure COVID killed more people in cities because they don't vote for him as much

[–] msage@programming.dev 14 points 10 months ago (1 children)

And it didn't work.

There were many such attempts, and almost every one failed. And exploded in the other direction.

[–] Gradually_Adjusting@lemmy.world 20 points 10 months ago (1 children)

I just take issue with "he just talks about it". When the president talks about hurting vulnerable communities, shit happens. He put kids in cages.

[–] msage@programming.dev 10 points 10 months ago (1 children)

Yeah, I know.

He also stacked the courts, sanctioned China, suggested injesting bleach, rolled back a lot of environmental protections, tried to buy Greenland, leave NATO, and many other things. Some did more damage than others, a lot of it won't be repaired in our lifetimes.

Stochastic terorism is on the rise thanks to him.

But I still think he hurt his base more than anyone else.

[–] Gradually_Adjusting@lemmy.world 6 points 10 months ago

You're not wrong, but for me the conversation about politics needs to shift away from "did they hurt their enemies effectively".

[–] GladiusB@lemmy.world 15 points 10 months ago (1 children)

It's because they can't win at anything else and they can win at pissing you off

[–] ShepherdPie@midwest.social 6 points 10 months ago

Yeah it's a flex of the little power these people hold over others.

[–] JeeBaiChow@lemmy.world 96 points 10 months ago (2 children)

Anyone not surprised this is exactly what they accused Biden of doing?

[–] WhyYesZoidberg@lemmy.world 53 points 10 months ago (1 children)

it’s all projection. same with all the pedophile stuff and their homophobia.

[–] PilferJynx@lemmy.world 13 points 10 months ago (1 children)

Hey, leave the catholic priests alone.

[–] Illuminostro@lemmy.world 1 points 10 months ago

Acne is better than Catholic priests. Acne waits until you're 13 before it comes on your face.

[–] OldWoodFrame@lemm.ee 2 points 10 months ago

It is not at all what they accused Biden of doing, they were saying Democrats were messing with the counting of the popular vote.

[–] Hobbes@startrek.website 72 points 10 months ago (1 children)

So it’s treason then?

[–] AlfredEinstein@lemmy.world 27 points 10 months ago (1 children)

It's fraud

[–] Grayox@lemmy.ml 34 points 10 months ago (1 children)

Treasonous fraud

[–] Empricorn@feddit.nl 12 points 10 months ago (2 children)

Fraudulent treason.

[–] b_n@sh.itjust.works 13 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago) (2 children)

Traudulent freason

[–] JudahBenHur@lemm.ee 1 points 10 months ago

comments like this are what made reddit a shit pile.

hey guys I got one

Ratulent Reafson post

[–] werefreeatlast@lemmy.world 1 points 10 months ago

Freason Traudulent! Off with their heads! Or fire squad!

Ok how about we make them go to the frontlines in Ukraine. That way we give them a chance for redemption and at the same time, you know they are not coming back.

[–] FlyingSquid@lemmy.world 2 points 10 months ago (1 children)

Two great tastes that taste great together!

[–] Empricorn@feddit.nl 3 points 10 months ago

Hey! You got fraud in my treason!

[–] SCB@lemmy.world 63 points 10 months ago (12 children)

You guys remember when people invented a worldwide conspiracy about rich people eating the fear of tortured children to stay young because John Podesta emailed his staff about a pizza party?

One would think that little debacle wouldve taught the Trump team not to email their felonies in plain language.

[–] kent_eh@lemmy.ca 12 points 10 months ago

One would think that little debacle wouldve taught the Trump team not to email their felonies in plain language.

An intelligent person might have learned from that...

[–] NegativeInf@lemmy.world 4 points 10 months ago

They can't learn from their own actions, why ever would they learn from the actions of others?

[–] assassin_aragorn@lemmy.world 1 points 10 months ago

That only works if they knew it was a lie all along. I think many of them thought it was actually true, which made them think there was no repercussion to talking freely about committing crimes on emails.

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[–] Jode@midwest.social 13 points 10 months ago (1 children)

Let's hope this slow drips into using that trump jet to fly these ballots.

[–] Empricorn@feddit.nl 0 points 10 months ago

What would that change? His treatment? His supporters' sycophantic boot-licking?

[–] werefreeatlast@lemmy.world 10 points 10 months ago

I think we owe it to our selves to take advantage of this:

" the fact that American presidents are not directly elected by the people, but rather by 538 "electors" who are selected by their states based on"

To the point where it's so clear that the Republicans will push legislation to end this dumb shit electoral college shit.

Just find a crooked set of governors or whoever oversees the elector selection. Then have those people go to each elector to make sure the electors vote not Republican each time. They should do it in an extremely public way such that they end up in jail.

Surely, once this is done, we the people will wake up and demand the end of the electoral college.

[–] compcube@lemy.lol 5 points 10 months ago

In that case, why not send them to fake Congress, and have a fake Mike Pence, who will certify a fake election?

[–] MisterFrog@lemmy.world 4 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago)

As an outsider, I think it's wild y'all are only outraged at the perpetrators, where you ought to also be vehemently pointing out the the system is inherently out-dated and fragile. This will happen again if nothing is changed about your voting system, guaranteed, and next time it will probably be better orchestrated.

It's absolutely wild you have federal elections run by the states, and that you need elected officials to cerfify an election in which they have an interest in the outcome. Something that OBVIOUSLY should be in the hands of an impartial electoral commission.

The world is on borrowed time, honestly (because of all the nukes).

Edit: When I say you it's my own rough sence of the current political discourse against Trump on the "left" (slightly centre-right) of the US

[–] JimmyBigSausage@lemm.ee 2 points 10 months ago

Crooks one might say?

[–] OldWoodFrame@lemm.ee 1 points 10 months ago

I don't know what crime coordinating this falls under (is it voter fraud if they aren't popular votes?) but Democrats should propose making the punishments 5x worse and watch Republicans argue against it. Good messaging.

And worst case scenario you make it way worse to try to overthrow democracy like this.